This week reminds us that nature loves a prank, and science is the poor exhausted adult trying to explain it; Snakes are apparently not “just a tail with a face”, sperm so long it becomes a storage problem, fungus that wants to be your next outfit, and a global happiness report that keeps crowning Finland like it’s the only country that’s figured out how to relax.
None of these stories are connected in any sensible way. Which is exactly why they belong together.
Snake News: They’re not just a tube
Someone once described a snake as “a tail with a face”, and honestly, it’s hard to unsee it. Snakes look like pure commitment to the tube lifestyle, with very little going on besides forward motion and mild judgement.
Except they’re not that simple. A 2015 study basically ruined the idea that snakes are neckless noodles by pointing out they do have a neck, it’s just short.
We’re talking roughly 5% of the body, which is not much, but it’s enough to count. And it turns out their spine is organised into regions, like they’re still quietly hanging onto the blueprint of their limbed ancestors.
So yes, snakes have a cervical region. They also have multiple thoracic regions, which is a sentence that sounds made up until you remember biology has never cared about sounding normal.
If you want to bring this up at a dinner party, you absolutely can. Just be prepared for the room to split into “that’s cool” and “why would you say that while I’m eating?”
Giant sperm. Need we say more?
From snakes we zigzag into sperm gigantism, which is exactly what it sounds like. Some species produce sperm so long it becomes a genuine physics and storage problem.
Fruit flies are the headline act here, because of course they are. When your sperm is longer than your body, it stops being a reproductive cell and starts being a lifestyle choice.
The obvious question is where they keep it. The next question is how it moves without turning into a tangled mess.
Researchers using electron microscopy have looked at how these giant sperm behave when they’re packed together. The description is both fascinating and deeply unsettling.
Fungi fashion and the risk of your pants timing out
Then we jump into the world of living textiles, where fungi are being used to create materials that can self-repair and transform. The star here is Cordyceps militaris, which already sounds like it should come with a hazard symbol.
The pitch is genuinely cool. You can grow materials, engineer colour using yeast, and make textiles that biodegrade fast, like within 40 days in the right conditions.
Which is great for the planet, but it does raise a practical question. What happens if your clothing decides it’s done with this life while you’re still wearing it.
It’s sustainable fashion with a side of suspense. Also, we need to talk about the smell potential, because “subtle mushroomy scent” is not a phrase that screams “premium wardrobe”.
Still, the idea that your clothes could heal themselves is tempting. It’s just a shame the same feature might also mean they can quietly disappear.
Finland wins happiness again, and we all pretend we’re surprised
We finish with the global happiness report, because after snakes and sperm and fungus pants, we deserve a palate cleanser. And yes, Finland is back at the top.
The reasons are fairly consistent. Strong social support, economic stability, trust in institutions, and access to nature all help.
There’s also the cultural vibe of “we don’t need to be loud about it”, which is honestly a powerful happiness strategy. Add a lake, a cabin, and a functioning welfare state, and suddenly everyone else looks like they’re doing life on hard mode.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction
02:03 Spine Regions Explained
03:11 Snakes Are Not Tails
08:23 Physics Of Giant Sperm
14:09 World Happiness Rankings
18:29 How Happiness Is Measured
22:36 Trust and Lost Wallets
24:02 Why Finland Wins
26:46 Living Fungal Textiles
32:27 Self-Cleaning and Biodegrading Clothes
36:55 Imaginarium of Tears
40:49 Give us stars and reviews already!
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ROD: [00:00:00] So when I first heard someone call snakes just a tail with a face, I thought, best description
ever.
Brilliant. But it turns out snakes are not just a tube with an in hole at the front and an out hole somewhere near the back. They actually have a bunch of sections, and they're literally discernible multiple
sections.
And to my great amusement, one of those sections includes having a short neck.
We need
Chewer
WILL: Always
ROD: Pfft, pfft, pfft, pfft, pfft, pfft, pfft
WILL: It's time for a little bit of science. I'm Will Grant, an associate professor in science communication at the Australian National University
ROD: And I'm Rod Lamberts, a 30-year science communication veteran, veteran, with a mind of a
somewhere
between 12 and 17-year-old boy
WILL: And today, as well as, uh, [00:01:00] snakes having necks, we also have for you questions you didn't know we had
ROD: Ooh.
I'm gonna tell you a little bit about happy, happy, joy, joy
And also for me, bespoke fungus
WILL: And just to close, I've got a little bit of, I don't know what this means from the science art world
ROD: is--
This is... That's a common question from the science
WILL: art world Well, indeed.
Indeed. I, I
ROD: Like
mean-
Is
What
winning? Are both people losing? Yeah. Like
WILL: does it mean?
ROD: confusing.
. All
All righty, snakes. Snakes.
We've discussed snakes before many times, and my opinion on snakes is fascinating, love them, really interesting-
WILL: Awesome ...
ROD: over there.
Speaker 5: Yeah,
WILL (2): Yeah, okay. I get it. I like
ROD: it over
WILL (2): there. I get
ROD: it.
WILL (2): If you go to a theme park, a reptile park- Yeah
are you the person that puts the snake around your shoulders sort of thing? I
Speaker 6: You're
WILL (2): You're
ROD: not? No.
WILL (2): What if they say it's gonna be safe?
ROD: I say that's awesome.
WILL (2): I mean, I, you know, you know how- To that
ROD: child
WILL (2): though ... things, things occasionally go wrong in theme parks? Yeah. Like, like a crowd of people watching someone get boa constricted,
Speaker 5: "could
WILL (2): Everyone look away
Speaker 5: for a moment?"
WILL (2): for a [00:02:00] moment. Free ice cream over there.
Speaker 5: Anyway, so
ROD: Sometimes too dry, you bastards. Um, anyway, so snakes. Snakes have short necks, yes, we will get to that. But what, first let's, we've got to do a comparison. Baseline, human spines, three main regions.
WILL (2): Back, back, and back.
ROD: Exactly. Top back, middle back, bottom back.
WILL (2): Oh, okay. I thought you meant,
WILL: in...
WILL (2): uh, like I was thinking, whereabouts in, else in your body do you have a spine?
It's not like in your arms or something like that. No,
ROD: have
a I don't have a spine
WILL (2): in my arms. Inside the spine there are three main regions. If you were
ROD: born with a spine in your arms, you'd be considered unusual.
So you got, yeah, that's, that's your neck. That supports your head, gives us mobility to, ability to look around.
WILL (2): So you got neck spine, yep.
ROD: Neck spine. Then you got your thoracic region with your ribbed
vertebra,
and they protect our internal organs.
In your
WILL (2): thoras region.
ROD: Yes, in the tho- in your tho- your thoracic.
WILL (2): Yeah.
So in your ribs. Behind your ribs. In
ROD: your ribs and yeah, that, that,
p-
well, your And then we have the lumbar region, so the lower part. Main function is
the upper
to support the upper body And in, within each region, the vertebrae have distinct shapes based on the function. So-
WILL (2): Okay ...
ROD: it's clearly different in the three regions.
Heaps
of animals have this kind of-
WILL (2): So if you took someone's spine and took it out-
ROD: Jumbled, jumbled it up ...
WILL (2): and put it back in- Yeah ... [00:03:00] it, it wouldn't be as good.
ROD: Yeah. Or if you took out the spine and you jumbled all the bits up, a smart person would be
would be able
able to put them back in roughly the right order.
WILL: Oh, okay. Yeah, nice.
ROD: So, okay, a lot of other animals have this section kind of division as well. and early research saw snakes as just one big long body with just sort of a univ- a uniform, slowly changing gradient of-
WILL: Oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah ...
ROD: just sort of one big lump of smoothly changing-
WILL (2): Yeah ...
ROD: vertebrates.
WILL (2): Sure, sure.
ROD: Vertebrates, the cereal of champions. So snake vertebrae do essentially change shape along the spinal column, but, like, it's not clear. The boundaries aren't clear, no big deal. That was the,
earlier
research. For a very long time, we actually did seem to think that basically snakes were tails, tails with faces.
this debate apparently was raging, raging
whether it was true or not until a seminal nature
paper
in 2015.
WILL (2): 2015?
ROD: 2015.
WILL (2): We still, thought they were, they were tubes up until 2015. We
ROD: were a little late, late to the snake party. It found snakes do have regions, four regions.
WILL (2): Upper neck, lower neck?
ROD: Your cervical, cervical, cer- cervical, anterior thoracic- Oh, back thoracic ... posterior thoracic- Oh ... and your lumbars.[00:04:00]
Posterior thoracic- Oh and your lumbars. So they got two tho- thoraxes.
WILL (2): So they got two tho- thoraxes. Two thoracies. Who knew?
ROD: Well, they did, the people who wrote the paper. J-
WILL (2): just, just think, listener. tomorrow At a party, you could say to someone, "Did you know snakes have two thoraxes?"
Yeah.
guaranteed-
ROD: Yeah. I'm not going home with you.
you.
I assume you keep snakes,
you
you fucking
WILL (2): creep.
Speaker 6: Someone
WILL (2): somewhere will be the person for you
ROD: But 100% "Hey, there's, you know, snakes that do thorax."
Like,
It's like, fuck off.
But wait, there's more, because now there's a PhD candidate at the School of Biological Sciences at Monash University,
and
I
love this.
His name is Amresh. Just one name.
WILL (2): Just one? Yeah.
ROD: He's a fucking rock star. Like, "I am Amresh." I love that.
It's
cool.
He
and some colleagues looked a a little bit harder at your, your snake's backbone.
WILL (2): Oh, don't tell me they found another one.
Well, they measured the shape of every single body vertebra in 13 snake specimens.
Sure. They
ROD: quantified each vertebra's shape-
WILL (2): Yep ...
ROD: to study how it changes along the body.
WILL (2): Yep.
ROD: And adding to the rock stardom of this, the [00:05:00] snakes they used, the eastern brown snake-
WILL (2): Nice ...
ROD: the copperhead, and the
tiger.
Now, for non-Australian based or extreme city dwelling, Aussie folks, holy shit, venomous slash poisonous-
WILL (2): Ah, calm down
venoms.
ROD: Venoms, 'cause you know the difference
WILL (2): Copperhead's an American snake. It ain't so bad.
ROD: No, apparently not, not great though.
WILL (2): Yeah, but it's American. Like, they're, they're like, like they're, they're like the equivalent of alligators compared to crocodiles. Like, they're, they're just-
ROD: Don't put your hand in the mouth of either
WILL (2): No, you could probably do it fine with an alligator.
Like, like they, they, they're all gums. They're, they're, they're like a gummy big
a gummy
ROD: Infamously toothless crocodilians.
WILL (2): Yeah.
are they aghatilians?
ROD: Or are they aghatilions?
WILL (2): I, I, I don't know.
ROD: But- Alligators ...
WILL (2): yeah
ROD: they're all poisonous. Oh, sorry, venomous. Now poisonous means, and I love this summary, poisonous means if you
bite
it, bite it, it hurts you, and venomous means it bites you and it hurts you.
WILL (2): Okay. Yeah, so you d- It's like- ... you've
ROD: ingested ... a venomous snake, y- you're not gonna get poisoned.
WILL (2): Yeah.
ROD: But if it licks you, you still won't get any poison. Yeah. If it bites you, however, you're in trouble. Yeah. Anyway, so they found not uniform gradients of change, but some areas really distinct [00:06:00] and rapid transitions-
WILL (2): Step changes.
ROD: Yeah ... step changes. And they found five regions
WILL (2): in total. W- wow.
ROD: Five regions.
WILL (2): Please tell me they got three thoraxes. And then you can be the other person at the party that says, "I'm afraid you should have listened to more of the episode."
Middle
ROD: thoracic
WILL (2): Between your
ROD: anterior and your
and your
posterior. I don't know how they came up with the name.
The genius is middle thoracic ribs.
WILL (2): Yeah, okay.
So
ROD: they have more. the short neck, by the way, is about 5% of the body, which is not unlike lizards, and it used to be claimed that they had a neck that was about 15% of the body. Bullshit, 5%.
WILL (2): Wow. I
ROD: just like, like, when I read that I was like, "Snakes have necks?
Aren't they just neck?"
Like
Like neck
with a butthole and a
with a butthole
So they have these really quite petite and short necks.
WILL (2): There you go.
There you go. I
ROD: I think that's hilarious. they say this contributes to an emerging theory where limbless animals have undergone shifts in their columns.
So basically, if you don't have any limbs, the only way to adapt to your environment is change your entire body.
body.
WILL (2): Oh, yeah, exactly. That's tough.
ROD: But they say, "You can see how snakes retain ancestral regions [00:07:00] within
the
vertebral columns despite having no limbs." But they also go further, they repattern their vertebral columns to be even more complex than their limbed counterparts.
So-
WILL (2): Well, if it's their one thing. No, it's the-- Yeah, exactly.
ROD: That's their gig.
WILL: Yeah.
ROD: That's their gig.
WILL (2): I'm surprised they're not up to, like, 30 different regions.
ROD: Well, look-
WILL (2): And they have, like, bits of spine that can do all sorts of crazy.
ROD: This is one of my two questions. Like, how long until someone goes, "No, it's actually six"?
My other question is, do you have to use murder snakes for your research?
WILL (2): Yes.
ROD: I'm guessing there's some kind of kudos in
Speaker 5: snake
ROD: the snake researching community. "Oh, no, no, we do eastern browns and tiger
and
tiger snakes." Not, "Well, I got something," your spotted pythons, your green tree snakes, your Australian-
WILL (2): I would've thought- ... geckos ... I would've thought you would've gone for a few different-- Like, make sure you get some python-y sorts of things- Yeah
and boa constrictors on your- Yeah ... on your list.
ROD: Yeah, or your Australian, North Queensland anaconda.
WILL (2): We don't
ROD: have them. Sorry, an anaconda.
WILL (2): We don't.
ROD: You don't?
WILL (2): No.
ROD: None?
WILL (2): No.
What
about
ROD: No. They're the ones that go really fast-
WILL (2): No, we got adorable little crink-- green tree snakes up in North Queensland, and, and your taipan, of course.
ROD: You're sitting in your Queenslander in FNQ
Speaker 5: in FNQ
ROD: and watching [00:08:00] TV and drinking a XXXX, one goes, "I'm gonna bite you on the dick."
WILL (2): No, they, they will come into your house. That is, that is the- Bite you
ROD: as well.
Like,
as well. Like,
"What are
doing you live
WILL (2): "I live here." Not anymore. "
ROD: Fuck you. I've got 17 vertebral regions and I'm gonna
you." there you." Anyway, there you go. So snakes have short necks and a bunch of regions. I'm betting there's gonna be more.
And
please tell me what it's like on non-venomous
snakes.
WILL (2): Well, I've got actually, uh, a weirdly, synchronous, overlapping story.
ROD: And to be clear to every listening home, we do not reveal until the
WILL (2): night before- There you go.
record. ,
And the question you, you didn't know we had is, what is the physics of giant sperm?
ROD: A lot.
WILL (2): Indeed. Indeed, indeed. We- Well, well, well, indeed. So some animals, produce what is known as, and what is actually, technically, and truly exceptionally long sperm
Like a meter, meter and a half.
comparable with the size of the animal itself.
So I, I don't have- Oh. I don't have the, the world record here. human sperm is on the order of, 50 [00:09:00] micrometers. But, uh, your fruit fly, they can have sperm that's 1.8 millimeters. So, you know- Millimeters? And, and indeed, when the length of the fruit fly is not necessarily, as big as that. So they can have sperm that is, that is longer than them
I have a lot of questions. I have a lot of questions.
Well, it's a choice. It's a choice Is it? like there are many evolutionary choices that animals make. I mean, choice of course is, you know, a loaded term here. But anyway, you could go, you could go with a strategy that says, "Okay, I'll have a lot of sperm that's small and fast," or I'll have some-
Speaker 5: a couple of big
ROD: I'll have a couple of big bastards- Killer
WILL (2): sp-
ROD: fight.
But you shouldn't,
Like it, it shouldn't
like, it shouldn't take a while for it to leave the- ... ejaculatory organ. You
WILL (2): don't want
ROD: to be there going, "Here it comes. Hang on."
Still.
same one, same one, and we're finished,"
WILL (2): So
ROD: So
WILL (2): interestingly, we, we know, we have evidence that, sperm gigantism, is an evolutionary strategy that is at least 100 million years old because,
Speaker 5: What
WILL (2): because in a single piece of mid-Cretaceous catchment amber, an ostracod, which [00:10:00] is a, I think it's a, it's a type of, crustaceany type thing.
Speaker 5: Crab
ROD: Crabs
WILL (2): book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, indeed. Fossilized in amber, the whole thing, whole thing there, and we found some, gigantic sperm.
ROD: And so what, it's the biggest piece of amber ever found, it's four and a half meters long- ... and it's just one sperm from a crab.
WILL (2): I don't think it's that.
So researchers have pondered much about gigantic sperm. Mm. But one of the things they ponder, which, which might be legitimate- is like, where in the body does this go? and where in the female receiving does it go? Because- Tum tum
if, No, not the tum tum. if you have such gigantically long sperm- Yeah ... how are we storing this and what's go, what's going on inside the testes and the sperm sacs?
ROD: So-
WILL (2): Also,
ROD: how big are the eggs? Like, like if you had a four- Hmm ... meter sperm and like a one micron egg,
I
feel like that egg's
Speaker 5: gonna
ROD: suffer.
I feel like your, your ov- your ova- ... are gonna have
Speaker 5: are gonna have to be comparably capable
ROD: to be comparably capable of
WILL (2): Probably
ROD: Unknown sperm ovary
Speaker 5: expert.
Speaker 6: Well,
WILL (2): I think that's, that's the next paper coming in this one Okay so thing to [00:11:00] take, that these gigantically long sperm. the fruit fly sperm, 1.8 mils, so, or 1,800 micrometers Interesting
Speaker 5: Insane.
WILL (2): they are relatively thick, like these
Speaker 5: Well, it's the girth that counts It's not length
ROD: It needs to be if
WILL (2): it counts. It's not length of me and they're characterized by an active flagellum, which is the tail, that is powered by bending waves generated. now basically, this goes back to your story about the, the snakes Yeah They, they do sort of move in a snake-like fashion.
They're sort of, they're sort of wriggling like a snake sort of thing. there's a great video, of this . But these researchers said, "That video is not enough. I want to see them inside the sac where they are kept." How are they, how are they going in
Speaker 5: fly?
WILL (2): a fruit fly Of a fruit fly. Of a fruit fly Wow
Speaker 5: Wow.
WILL (2): So using, uh, scanning electron microscopes- Yeah ... to look at them inside the body in the collections, of sperm inside the male fruit fly, and how are they moving around inside?
So basically-
Speaker 5: Insane
WILL (2): ins- inside the sperm sacs, They are full to bursting of like thousands of these, these super long sperm. There's nine meter sperm Like,
Speaker 5: fighting with each
WILL (2): [00:12:00] they are full to, full to bursting of these giant sperm So
ROD: they're going both large and plentiful
WILL (2): Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay, thousands.
Humans probably have in hundreds of million. Yeah, I think, I, I think they, they have a lot when you, when you go, "Damn, they're long," but,
Speaker 6: But
WILL (2): not a lot if you were to say,
Speaker 6: uh-
WILL (2): uh-
Speaker 5: Compared
WILL (2): to
compared to Right. Okay
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 6: Highly
WILL (2): resolved and rapid microscopy, and experiments across them show them moving through this like, they describe this like a mass of snakes.
So- Ooh
Speaker 5: Oh
WILL (2): so
Speaker 6: they've
WILL (2): got these sp- And they're, and they're tracking the motion of these snakes. Like, they're, they're sort of
Speaker 6: of
curling
WILL (2): and twisting in this, uh The majesty of
ROD: research
Speaker 5: of reproductive life
WILL (2): "Our work establishes such giant sperm in vivo," in life, "as a novel biological active matter system-"
ROD: Sounds normal "...
WILL (2): whose extensor stresses arise from the sperm's rapid and collective counterpropagation through densely packed storage organs."
So they're all curled up here like-
ROD: Counterpropagation
WILL (2): Yeah. They, [00:13:00] um-
ROD: Swimming against the current?
WILL (2): So they're all-- No. So they're, they're, they're all largely swimming in the same direction. They're all lined up. They're stacked up and lined up. They're lined up neatly, and then they, they sort of folded around like in, in, in neat stacks.
You can imagine like a, like geological flows. You can see like the, the- Yeah ... the bends in the rocks. So they're all sort of flowing in the same direction. they said like a, a mass of snakes or a, or a mass of worms, but I, I was imagining them a bit more tangled up. These are not tangled. These are all neatly organized- Neat
and ready to go at any one time.
ROD: Hitler youth, very organized sperms.
WILL (2): Yeah yeah. Yes, and as they wiggle, sort of the next one wiggles as well, and they're all wiggling sort of as they-
ROD: So when they leave the body, do they, do they politely take it in turns? One at a time?
Speaker 5: they politely take it in turns,
WILL (2): I,
Speaker 5: a
WILL (2): I think they, that not only, they help e- they help each other to get through the organs that they need to.
ROD: Your turn, champ.
WILL (2): Yeah. They're, they're sort of pushing each other forward. They're making like a, a little- Let me give you a- ... bridge of sperm- ...
ROD: spooff up ...
WILL (2): to, to push each other through the tubes to victory. So- Tubes to victory? So
Speaker 5: Tubes to victory.
Speaker 6: So
WILL (2): there you go.
Speaker 6: go.
WILL (2): there's, there's a [00:14:00] question y- you didn't know we had. What is the physics of giant sperm?
ROD: An answer you know you didn't need.
Speaker 5: Happiness. Do you like happiness? I like
ROD: I like happiness
WILL (2): Of course, who doesn't like happiness? Miserable people.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
ROD: Yeah. Oh, they probably still like it Yeah, maybe But,
WILL (2): you know, their anger with not having
Speaker 5: the, you know, their
ROD: it
Speaker 5: not
WILL (2): Yeah, yeah,
ROD: yeah So you know there's this,
Speaker 5: annual
ROD: World Happiness Report
Speaker 5: been out for quite some, many
ROD: that's been out for quite
WillAudio: some,
WILL (2): many years I don't, actually
ROD: Oh,
Speaker 5: out every,
ROD: it comes out every, every year
They do countries.
So there are 147 countries in the running, so top
Speaker 5: 10.
WILL (2): Okay. Is this a guessing game or a non-guessing game?
ROD: We'll get, we'll get to a bit of guessing
WILL (2): Okay.
ROD: All right
Speaker 5: I'm gonna g-
ROD: Just a bit
Speaker 5: do some comparisons.
ROD: is Finland is, for the ninth year running, the happiest
WILL (2): Smashing. I mean, you wouldn't expect it to change radically all the time, but go Finland. Well, there's a civil war- Well,
uh, just, just just one point of order here.
One point of order.
Speaker 6: do
WILL (2): they do this study always in, like, June or something like that, and all the Finns are coming out of, out of a deep winter and they're just like- In the middle of winter ... "Oh my God, this is aw-" I, I, I can't really do a Finnish accent, [00:15:00] but,
Speaker 5: "There is
ROD: light. I can see light"
WILL (2): No, I don't think that's
Speaker 5: used to light."
WILL (2): right either "I can see light" No, I don't think that's right either How
ROD: do you know?
WILL (2): But, but, you know,
uh, uh,
no,
just pointing out that, the Scandinavian countries do have strong seasonal affective disorder, despite their, you know, their happy welfare state, they do have some very dark periods of time,
Speaker 5: Where it's literally
dark.
Speaker 6: Where
WILL (2): it's literally dark ... where it's literally dark, and you can imagine that the opposite seasons would make you o- oppositionally
Speaker 6: oppositionally happy.
ROD: Honestly, I think that's a very good question.
and I... Look, it's not unrelated
Not specifically, but in principle it's not unrelated. Um, so Finns first, Iceland second
WILL (2): Oh
ROD: Denmark third
Then Costa Rica
WILL (2): Hey, Costa Rica. There you go. So we've mixed it up a bit there
ROD: Costa Rica. Then Sweden
WILL (2): Uh
ROD: Norway, Netherlands, Israel
Luxembourg
And number 10, rounding it out, Switzerland
WILL (2): Okay
ROD: Die Schweiz. New Zealand come in at number 11
WILL (2): Oh, do they?
Speaker 5: Bastards.
ROD: Australia
Speaker 5: 15 Oh
WILL (2): Oh
ROD: Belgium is 14th, but we know why Belgium. Belgium
Speaker 5: should be
ROD: should be number one 'cause their beer's delicious
WILL (2): Yeah, they got other things
ROD: losers.
Your people, the, the [00:16:00] UKans are
WILL (2): 29th Honestly, I am, uh- Higher
ROD: than you
Speaker 5: thought?
WILL (2): would have thought
ROD: Me too. I was like, "
WILL (2): Ah." Yeah.
ROD: No, 147. I would put you about 149.
Speaker 5: You seem
ROD: You seem pretty grumpy.
Speaker 5: grumpy. That's why your humor's so
ROD: That's why
Speaker 5: USA
is
ROD: so good. USA is 33rd.
WILL (2): Wow.
ROD: Again, I-
WILL (2): Wow. Go America. I know. You're not as bad as you think.
ROD: China, 65th, so
Speaker 5: halfway-ish.
WILL (2): Hmm. Slightly above- Which direction are they going?
I'd like to... Look, I- I'm getting
ROD: happier
WILL (2): results ... I, I'm just wondering about trends over time in this.
Yeah
Speaker 5: This
ROD: I'm not doing a trend analysis. This is just the-
WILL (2): Yeah, just this year. Okay. Yeah ...
ROD: baseline. Now we're gonna test you a little bit. I'm just gonna give you a couple comparisons. Tell me who's happier.
WILL (2): Okay.
ROD: Tajikistan or
Speaker 5: or
ROD: Nepal?
WILL (2): Ooh, uh-
ROD: Mm-hmm ...
WILL (2): Nepal did have some cooee sort of stuff for you. I, I'm
Speaker 5: Cooee No, I'm gonna go Nepal Tajikistan 88th,
WILL (2): gonna, I'm gonna go- Cooee, cooee
No, I'm gonna go
ROD: Nepal. Tajikistan 88, Nepal 99.
WILL (2): All right. Yeah, they're pretty close.
ROD: Okay. What about, what about here? Okay. Burkina Faso
Speaker 5: or
ROD: or Somalia?
Speaker 5: I mean, this is an easy one
WILL (2): I think it's an easy one. I'm gonna go Burkina Faso.
ROD: No. [00:17:00]
WILL (2): Oh, okay. They're 123,
WillAudio: Somalia's
ROD: 117. The,
Speaker 5: Somalia's
WILL (2): the, I...
Speaker 5: 117.
WILL (2): So calm down here on the differences- ... between number 123 and 117. Like- I will
ROD: not ...
WILL (2): No, I, I question your use of statistics.
ROD: I question your guesswork.
WILL (2): Yeah. Okay.
ROD: Japan or Latvia, my people?
WILL (2): Uh, Latvia.
ROD: Yeah. 48th, Japan
Speaker 5: 61th.
ROD: Okay, one more. One more. One more. France or
Speaker 5: Spain?
WILL (2): Ooh.
ROD: Mm.
WILL (2): Spain.
ROD: Yes. No, France. France 35, France has murdered them out of the park- Uh... ...
WILL (2): by six
ROD: places. Hmm. France
WILL (2): seven, Spain-
ROD: Hmm Do you know why?
WILL (2): Listen, listener, I question his use of stats here.
ROD: Do you know why?
WILL (2): Why?
ROD: Because
Speaker 5: France
ROD: is a lot less desert land.
WILL (2): I don't think desert land is inherently unhappy.
Speaker 5: Yeah,
ROD: Yeah, it is. In Spain-
Speaker 5: it is, obviously, 'cause they're less happy than France.
ROD: None of that's in the report. The bottom three. The bottom three
WILL (2): Wow
ROD: Malawi
WILL (2): Okay
ROD: Sierra Leone
WILL (2): Mm
ROD: And coming in at [00:18:00] 147, Afghanistan
Speaker 5: Wow.
WILL (2): Wow
I've certainly heard... Actually, I have heard, there can be times like is Ukraine on the list? But,
Speaker 6: But um-
WILL (2): there are times when, uh, people talk of wartime as not necessarily the most unhappy of times.
Now, not
Speaker 5: not a
ROD: so- If you're not a soldier probably, no
WILL (2): Well, depending, depending on how things work and whatever. Like that, um- Yeah ... th-th-there are ti- that it is a time of more solidarity or something like that. But-
ROD: I can imagine that. And also then you sort of celebrate the small things
Speaker 5: that,
ROD: that,
Speaker 5: are
ROD: that are good.
WILL (2): Yeah.
Like filling out surveys on how happy you are.
ROD: Exactly.
WILL (2): Like, finally we're being, we're being asked.
ROD: So the article that I read about this was, there was an interview with the guy who edits this. He's a behavioral scientist called Jan-Emmanuel De Neve, who's at there's a bit of a breakdown of how they measure happiness, but also why Finland might be number one, 'cause I think it's, it's quite useful. We get some tips for ourselves.
WILL (2): Yep.
ROD: So it's part of this Gallup World Poll-
WILL (2): Yep ...
ROD: that's run every year.
Speaker 5: They
ROD: sample about 1,000 people, or at least 1,000 people. They have splits on gender-
WILL (2): Per country or just-
ROD: Per country.
So 1,000 people at minimum per country.
WILL (2): That's a lot of s- a lot of people.
ROD: It's a fuck ton of people. They split on gender, [00:19:00] se- socioeconomic status, urban versus rural, and on and on. There's a lot of demographic breakdowns. They don't define happiness. They ask people how happy they are and get them to rate- Self-report.
WILL (2): Yeah, yeah,
ROD: sure ... So, so, you know, they wanna know if people are leading a happy life in their own-
WILL (2): Yeah, sure
Speaker 5: perspective
ROD: or
point of view. So they literally say, "Are you happy with your life?" Then they get you to rate it one to 10, 10 being awesome and one being absolutely horrible. Where do you stand today? They get the scores. So they say it's not a measure of whether people are dancing in the streets or singing from the rooftops.
It's a more of a sense of contentment.
WILL (2): Yeah.
ROD: Which I think is...
Speaker 5: contentment's a great
emotion.
ROD: a great emotion. I
WILL (2): love
ROD: feeling content. Sure. I'm So the annual rankings are then they base them on a three-year rolling average, so they don't just take it from one year.
WILL (2): Oh, you can't change... Yeah.
ROD: They take a three-year rolling average.
WILL (2): Like if you just won the World Cup, that's not enough.
ROD: No. That's why Argentina are 178.
so they also use surveys to measure things like generosity, whether people in these countries generally feel positive or negative emotions, et cetera.
Speaker 5: And
ROD: then as this guy puts it, the editor, they reverse engineer the results to see what might explain differences between countries using objective [00:20:00] measures like GDP per person, healthy life expectancy, whether people have friends they can rely on, et cetera. Mm.
Speaker 5: ask a lot of
ROD: So they So the question is for me, why are all these snow country folks, these scandos- Yep
except for Costa Rica, up there winning?
Speaker 5: So
ROD: basically, communism/socialism- Welfare
WILL (2): state.
ROD: Yeah ... really.
WILL (2): Yeah,
ROD: really.
Speaker 5: really.
ROD: And probably also, I-- this is my suspicion, 'cause they're all so bloody hot. They're very good-looking peoples, those-
WILL (2): Sure. Okay. Yeah ...
ROD: scandos.
WILL (2): I don't, I don't know if that makes you happy.
ROD: Doesn't it?
Being surrounded by hot people makes me happy.
WILL (2): Hmm.
ROD: That's why I hang out with you, man.
WILL (2): Thank you. Finally.
ROD: So the gist is high levels of economic productivity, but unlike many high income states like the US-
WILL (2): Spread it around ...
ROD: exactly, spread it around. Greater income inequality is associated
Speaker 5: worse
ROD: with worse wellbeing.
It's
WILL (2): just-
ROD: Ah. So when you m- when you distribute money through a welfare state, economic anxieties drop. Social safety nets make people feel safe.
Speaker 5: You're
ROD: not worried if you become redundant or unemployed because if you're in the US,
Speaker 5: that
ROD: means you're basically destitute if
Speaker 5: in
ROD: you're infirm. And it's like, "Yeah, well, no difference."
WILL (2): You [00:21:00] know, a lot of science fiction readers, g- writers talk about, you know, getting to utopia. Utopia, you know, We can kinda have it.
ROD: Oh, today?
WILL (2): Yeah, today. We can, we can feed everyone, house everyone, clothe everyone, everyone can live meaningful li- happy lives.
It is, it is available right now, right in front of us. Yeah, we don't have to- It's a choice. It's, it's 100%
Speaker 6: It's 100%
WILL (2): a choice ...
ROD: we absolutely do
Speaker 5: have to wait. It's really annoying.
ROD: There's also notions of what constitutes
Speaker 5: healthy
ROD: life expectancy. Health span, not just life span.
WILL (2): Yeah, of course.
ROD: and
so they... Social ties as well. So they use proxies for this, like the number of shared meals you have a week.
WILL (2): Ah, that's a, that, that's a, that's a nice measure. I like that. That's good. That's
ROD: a very nice measure. I, I agree. And, and-
WILL (2): So long as I don't have to share breakfast with people. I like that's, that's special. No, it's fine. That's, that's my modest m- monk time.
ROD: I'm the same. I'm the same. Like I said-
WILL (2): I mean, if I'm going out for breakfast, that's different, but-
WillAudio: Well,
ROD: that's it by definition.
WILL (2): Yeah. But my regular day, yeah.
ROD: I'm the
Speaker 5: same.
ROD: I'm the same. Like, like recently my wife started getting up earlier than she used to. I'd always be up early, and I'd sit down with the dogs, I'd eat my food, I'd read my book.
Speaker 5: I'd
ROD: give them a little bit of toast.
WILL (2): Yeah.
ROD: Quiet reading, happy.
Yeah, I, I agree. Breakfast, it's nice to have
Speaker 5: calm
ROD: time.
WILL (2): Yeah.
ROD: [00:22:00] Yeah, so number of times you share a meal. Also, whether you have friends you can rely on in an emergency, which is-
WILL (2): Ah ...
ROD: that's, that's a, that's a confronting metric if you think about it and you, you think, "Who would I call?"
If you can't say someone-
WILL (2): Oh ...
ROD: that's horrifying.
WILL (2): And, And here's the thing, you know, many countries could look at some of those measures and see people going backwards.
ROD: That's scary.
WILL (2): We're gonna build this stuff
ROD: back. As you get older, it happens more.
Speaker 5: more.
ROD: and so people in these countries, the, the happier countries, they have more time for family and friends than you might have in the UK, the US, et cetera.
Speaker 5: here
ROD: as well, because of all the work hours. So Denmark, Finland, et cetera, they take work-life balance more seriously.
Also, social trust.
WILL (2): Yep.
ROD: So the classic one is the lost wallet question. You've probably seen this, where they say to people, "If you lost your wallet, what's the likelihood you think it would get back to you?"
WILL (2): What do you reckon is the likelihood here in Australia?
ROD: Ooh. Hmm. I don't think Australia wide is one question.
Like in Canberra maybe more likely than-
WILL (2): So you, you- ...
ROD: a shitty part
Speaker 5: another
ROD: city ...
WILL (2): so you a hos- you a hostile Canberran to the rest of the country. We'd all return [00:23:00] it to you, man.
ROD: You would because you're lovely people in Canberra.
WILL (2): No, I'm, I'm Queensland, man.
ROD: Look, here's my expectation. I lose my
Speaker 5: wallet,
ROD: I would imagine I'd get it back, but if there was cash, which doesn't really count anymore, that might not be in there. But I figure
Speaker 5: fair enough, keep the cash,
ROD: fair enough, keep the
Speaker 5: my wallet back.
ROD: you
WILL (2): You?
The cash, I don't know.
But the wallet itself, I actually think it'd get back to you, like- Hmm ... anywhere in Australia.
ROD: Probably ...
WILL (2): I, I- On the whole. Yeah.
Have you seen stories about, not that they have the, uh, up, up super high on the happiness index- Hmm ... but the Japanese, lost and found, system?
No.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 6: So
WILL (2): if you, if you lose nearly anything, like an umbrella
they get handed in to a police station they have a system of just returning- Wow ... like they take that kind of thing super seriously. Really? Like I can imagine, like you lose your wallet in Australia, and a wallet is actually an easy thing to return because it has a whole bunch of identity in it.
Like- Yeah ... like a shoe is not as easy to return. But Japan, they would get the shoe back to you.
Speaker 5: the shoe back to you. I've lost
ROD: I've lost my shoe.
Speaker 5: Both of them?
ROD: No,
WILL (2): for, no
ROD: I mean, so they say Nordic countries on the whole, they're pretty confident
Speaker 5: it'll,[00:24:00]
ROD: it'll come back,
Speaker 5: someone will
ROD: hand it in.
Speaker 5: in.
ROD: So why Finland though
Speaker 5: ni-
ROD: after nine, like number one for nine years? So the speculation, they have a small population and a very large country, and I love the quote, "Everyone seems to have a cabin on a lake or somewhere in
WILL (2): the woods." If, everyone's got a cabin on a lake, like there was a thing I saw, there was a thing I saw recently there were so many small islands that there was just a, a, a universally understood thing that you, you might paddle or dinghy or row or whatever out to an island. Just go and grab one.
And if someone else... No, this is just like during a weekend- Oh ... you know, you might go for a picnic. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
WILL (2): And,
and if someone else is on that island, you just go find another one, they are not Tasmania-sized islands, li- like they are. But I think there are absolutely places, ways to be happy in mega cities, but no doubt if- Not in the same way ... if there is both a social net-
and, you know, a bit of space, like.
ROD: Th- I mean, and this is what they're getting at, and they say, "Look, so connection to nature is
Speaker 5: common
WILL (2): Mm
Speaker 5: to
ROD: and easy to
And I mean, we know science says, you know, spending time outside enhances your mood-
WILL (2): Forest bathing.
ROD: Yep ... all
Speaker 5: sort of shit is
ROD: that sort of shit is important. Also, [00:25:00] apparently the Finnish are very content with their lives, suggesting they're a little bit more down to earth, is how they put it.
They're not wishing for the stars, these, this,
Speaker 5: the
ROD: editors say. Yeah,
WILL (2): yeah, yeah.
ROD: They're pleased with what they have, their positivity influences their subjective wellbeing. But it's not just cultural. I think this is an interesting point.
Speaker 5: So
ROD: they sussed out or they did some comparisons of the effects of migration on
Speaker 5: individuals
ROD: going to other countries.
WILL (2): Yeah.
ROD: They said, "Okay, people who move to another country, it's surprising how quickly they adapt to the average happiness of that country."
WILL (2): Oh, right. Okay.
ROD: Which I think is quite interesting.
Speaker 5: So
ROD: they say, for example, someone from the UK moves to Canada, they start slightly lower, and you see them start to pick up to the Canadian average.
So-
Speaker 5: you can,
ROD: you can, you can change from your culture.
WILL (2): So, so if a Finn moves anywhere, they're just gonna be sad. It's
ROD: like, "This is shit. Why would I do this to myself?"
WILL (2): And anyone moves to Finland and they're gonna like, "Wow, this is awesome."
ROD: Best move I've ever made.
WILL (2): Yeah.
Speaker 5: move I've ever
ROD: Yeah. I mean, I think it's kind of cool.
And so the question then becomes
Speaker 5: what, what
ROD: can we learn from this? So redistribution of income- Yeah ... gains obviously. And they say things like this, you know, invest in productivity that [00:26:00] comes from
Speaker 5: technologies,
ROD: like
Speaker 5: apologize. Four-day working week for five-day pay, things like this. And, and why the fuck
ROD: Mm. Four-day working week for five-day pay, things like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, and why the fuck wouldn't you? Also social infrastructure, not just physical infrastructure.
WILL (2): Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: clubs,
ROD: societies,
Speaker 5: cetera, et cetera, et
ROD: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So ultimately it's about the C word, contentment.
WILL (2): Oh, I thought you were gonna s-
ROD: yeah. Nothing to do with communism, but like really it's, it's about-
WILL (2): Did they-
ROD: enhancing contentment ...
WILL (2): did they control for sauna usage though?
Speaker 5: There's
ROD: other studies that I was reading this week about sauna usage, and
Speaker 5: gotta
ROD: say the court is out.
WILL (2): No, the court is not out. Court is not out. I'm
ROD: not talking about your sauna.
Speaker 5: talking
about
ROD: I'm talking
WILL (2): about- No, no, it's, it's basically been proved by an all science, all science that, uh-
ROD: Do you know, last, last few times I've sat in a sauna, I started to feel faint.
I thought I was having a stroke.
WILL (2): That's the good bit.
ROD: Well, That's
when it goes wrong
Speaker 5: the good bit What happens when it goes wrong?
So, um, there
are
ROD: There are funguses, and there are funguses that have caused some troubles for people
WILL (2): Funguses? Fungi
ROD: Fungistes
but there are some that are, they're being fiddled with, not to turn us into zombies, not to make them [00:27:00] world-murdering mega diseases, but actually to tweak fashion
WILL (2): Oh, okay
ROD: Fashion.
So a bunch of researchers at the Chinese Academy of Science, they've created a living textile that can be programmed- Oh, wow ... with different properties using various
Speaker 5: microbial
ROD: components
Speaker 5: So
ROD: these properties are things like self-repair, waterproofing, and I love this,
Speaker 5: astounding
ROD: biodegradability.
WILL (2): Ah.
Astounding. I, I- Astounding ... breaks down afterwards though, not while you're wearing it.
ROD: Well-
WILL (2): Unless you want that ...
ROD: it's expe-
Speaker 5: who doesn't?
WILL (2): and who doesn't? Unless- Not my fault I'm naked ... it's some weird version of strip t- it's like you've got a, "No, the fungus dissolves when I, when I press the button." Not
ROD: my fault.
I've got a bit moist. So they're using the Last of Us fungus, the cord- your Cordyceps militaris.
Which grows on caterpillars, but apparently it's actually in real life harmless to people. It's not-
WILL (2): Sure ...
ROD: actually dangerous
WILL (2): Sure. Great ...
ROD: that's, that's fiction. Anyway, so this fungus- It's not ... your Cordyceps militaris,
Speaker 5: it's
ROD: made up of these thin filaments, and researchers grew them [00:28:00] as small spherical
Speaker 5: pellets
ROD: in a liquid culture. So small pellets
WILL (2): of- Yes, they did.
I was gonna guess that. I, I was gonna guess they did that ...
ROD: Then they washed them-
WILL (2): Yes
Speaker 5: put
ROD: put them into molds where they formed a sheet. They soaked them in glycerol or glycerol, I don't know which way to say that,
Speaker 5: which
ROD: act as, I like to say, a plasticizer-
to prevent it from becoming too brittle, and it makes the fungal structure soft and more flexible.
WILL (2): we've made leather, like a, a, a sort of mushroom leather.
ROD: Yeah. One of the descriptions is it's kind of much more like a, a, a flexible leather-like material. So they say the, the Cordyceps militaris,
Speaker 5: militaris,
ROD: the pellets themselves serve as a structural building block, and they intertwine their filaments to form a continuous self-supporting sheet.
WILL (2): Just with some goo.
ROD: With some goo. And they don't use conventional fabrics or polymer mesh or anything else. Like, there's no external scaffolding. These things do it on their own.
WILL (2): They do it on their own. Can they sew?
ROD: No, but they can grow.
WILL (2): Ah,
ROD: So
Apparently it feels a little denser and, but not quite as fibrous as cotton, but yet closer to a soft
Speaker 5: kind
ROD: of flexible leather material.
How [00:29:00] do you color it? You engineer yeast.
WILL (2): Obviously. We can't, we can't dye it or something or paint it? No, we engineer it. Oh, all right. All right. Yeah.
ROD: So they engineer yeast and they say this, the fungal textile color is generated biologically. So
Speaker 5: you
ROD: fuck with the yeast in
Speaker 5: ways, you get different colors.
WILL (2): the right ways, you get different colors.
Can I confirm, like when you are to wear this, if you are, like the, the fungus is all dead or is the fungus still alive at this point?
ROD: I think dormant might be a better word.
WILL (2): Dormant. Hmm. Oh.
ROD: It's not in this piece, but-
WILL (2): I mean, obviously that's what I want. I want some dormant clothes.
ROD: Dormant clothing.
I want, I want dormant underpants.
WILL (2): Could come back to life at any moment.
ROD: Well, they say when it's dry Most biological activity is greatly reduced. Most and greatly reduced
WILL (2): That's great. Yeah. That's, that's great. you know, I really want clothes that-
Speaker 5: Mostly
ROD: dormant-
Speaker 5: with
ROD: biological activity greatly reduced.
And they say the cells may remain inactive or dormant.
WILL (2): May. I mean, as a, as a warning label on your clothes, like, I mean-
ROD: May remain
WILL (2): inactive ... you know, you know, it says contains leather, made of cotton, "
ROD: May not be dormant."
Speaker 5: Also,[00:30:00]
ROD: when dry,
Speaker 5: when
ROD: they're dry, most biological activity is greatly reduced,
But when humid and there are nutrients-
WILL (2): Yes
Speaker 5: some
ROD: cells can become active again.
WILL (2): Great.
ROD: Mm-hmm. This,
Speaker 5: they
ROD: say latent biological capacity is what enables functions such as regrowth and repair.
WILL (2): Okay.
ROD: So there's an upside.
WILL (2): Oh, okay. You take them in the shower and they, they-
ROD: Yeah, you give them a little moist and give them some nutrient, which really- They
WILL (2): grow
Speaker 5: Or something or-
WILL (2): or something, or they-
ROD: Well, yeah, like if they get torn, they say if you add a fresh, wet fungal pellet- ... you put it near the area, and the fungus simply grows over the breach in the fabric.
So in principle.
WILL (2): That's great. Uh, I, you know, you know, this is-
ROD: You're not seeing on board.
WILL (2): Well, look, look, I, I appreciate that clothes are an evolving journey. They are a technology that we have used for many, many thousands of years. Mm-hmm. And we have a relationship with them that- Mm ... that is,
Speaker 6: is,
that
WILL (2): is both functional and aesthetic and, and all sorts of other things.
And-
ROD: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I,
ROD: I love the idea that you kind of go, "Oh, I wish this jacket was blue.
Speaker 5: [00:31:00] Get
ROD: me that yeast."
WILL (2): Yeah. I'll get some yeast and I'll, I'll, I'll-
ROD: I'll smear that particular yeast on, my jacket is now blue.
Speaker 5: I
ROD: mean, in principle, it sounds fabulous. I know what you're wondering.
Speaker 5: Y- here's,
ROD: here's here's your question I know.
Won't it smell like humus or compost?
WILL (2): Oh, I wasn't worried about that.
Speaker 5: Well, you should be.
WILL (2): Well,
ROD: you should be. Oh. One of the researchers, the lead, the lead researcher, Kayleigh, she, she says, she reassures us all, " A slight biological or fermentation-related odor may be detectable in freshly prepared samples."
WILL (2): But who doesn't want to smell like compost?
It's very attractive ...
ROD: instant panty dropper
Speaker 5: and/or
ROD: gentleman hardener.
But she says, "Don't worry, it can be greatly reduced
Speaker 5: through
ROD: cleaning, drying, and post-treatment. And don't worry, after washing and processing, the material does not have a strong mushroom-like smell."
WILL (2): Ah.
ROD: What I love about that phrase is
Speaker 5: " Doesn't
ROD: have a strong mushroom-like smell.
WILL (2): No, no. Just- It sounds
ROD: more like- But
WILL (2): to- ...
ROD: subtle mushroom-like
WILL (2): smell ... to be honest, though,
Speaker 6: I am,
WILL (2): I am, I am a lover of the mushroom, and,
Speaker 5: and-
WILL (2): Sure ... and,
uh- You
ROD: may wanna
smell like it all the time. I don't mind. Depending on the clothing.
There are other mods you can do by adding different fungi
WILL (2): What can we do?
ROD: UV protection
Speaker 6: Ah.
WILL (2): but [00:32:00] it's clothes, so
ROD: Not all clothes are as good as you think. For example, linen shirts apparently are
Speaker 5: not great for
ROD: not great for blocking out
Speaker 5: the
ROD: the UVs.
So it can form a dark layer on the surface of the material. It contains melanin
pigment,
For blocking out UV.
Speaker 5: blocking out UV. Okay.
WILL (2): Okay
ROD: So you add that and you-
WILL (2): How quickly does this transition happen? Like-
ROD: Seven units of time.
WILL (2): Oh, but it's, it's not like you could, you could hit a little pellet and, and- No,
ROD: push the pellet button ...
WILL (2): and it transforms into, you know- Not
ROD: yet. Not yet. This is what you call experimental.
WILL (2): Oh, okay
Speaker 5: there
are
ROD: are others that could make it clean itself, and this was a bit
Speaker 5: bit unclear
to
ROD: to me.
WILL (2): I, I, this whole make it clean itself, there's a whole bunch in Silicon Valley, you know, it's like- Oh ... AI that can tell you what you can have for dinner, and I'm like, "What are you talking about?" Like, "What are you talking about? I like thinking about what I can have for dinner."
Speaker 5: you don't.
WILL (2): But similarly, this self-cleaning thing, we have washing machines, and it is not the hardest thing in the world to put your clothes in the wash.
ROD: I, I don't advise putting your fungal jacket in the wash
WILL (2): No, probably it should have... No, but what I'm saying How hard is
ROD: washing something? ...
WILL (2): it is not an invention [00:33:00] that, that is really that necessary. So
ROD: you think that now, but in 20 years when everyone's used to it, the, the kids who've grown up with it-
WILL (2): Oh, look, I'm not-
ROD: self-cleaning are like, "You have to wash your clothes"
WILL (2): Like, okay, so in the future when all of our clothes are completely self-cleaning- Self-cleaning ... wow.
ROD: And you're only a mile walk-
WILL (2): Wow. Wow. We have saved ourselves an arduous task. Okay, I get it
Speaker 5: Well, look, i- if you
ROD: you
could literally kind of wave a magic wand or-
Speaker 5: or
WILL (2): No, but-
push a button and have it clean itself ... no, but if, if, if, if your, your, your washer woman of medieval times
Speaker 4: says, "I can't wait till they invent self-cleaning clothes." People had clothes.
WILL (2): Like, like I get her saying that 'cause she's spending all her time cleaning clothes. Working
Speaker 5: her
WILL (2): her knuckles to the bone. But we have, we have machines that do a pretty decent job these days.
It takes a while. Oh my God.
Speaker 5: I'm
ROD: I won't take a phone call.
WILL (2): But you, but takes a while when you can do something else. It's not like takes a while and I have to be there lathering up the lather. This washing machine Lathering things up.
ROD: Look, this washing machine's really good, but you have to watch it
WILL (2): all the time.
And did you know most people have more than one set of clothes, and I know there are some that don't, and that is actually an, an important point. Yes. But [00:34:00] most people have more than one set of clothes, and so you can...
Speaker 6: clothes,
WILL (2): It's not like you're, you are sitting there nude waiting for your clothes to be washed.
Speaker 5: lost me. M- more
than
ROD: washing machine for more than one set of clothes.
WILL (2): So, so you can literally, like, you can do something else while you are washing your clothes. Like while the machine is washing-
ROD: You can put on your dry clothes and your underpants ...
WILL (2): while the machine
Speaker 6: while the machine
WILL (2): is washing your clothes, you can do- Yeah.
Speaker 5: but don't tell
ROD: But don't tell these guys that, they'll be very upset with
Speaker 5: with you
ROD: you 'cause that you've ruined their purpose for living.
Speaker 5: They
ROD: also, something to think about here, the properties of the material that make it able to self-repair also means, as I said earlier, astoundingly biodegradable.
WILL (2): Oh.
ROD: So it shows,
Speaker 5: the
ROD: quote, "Near complete visible degradation in soil after about 40 days."
WILL (2): So if you bury your jacket-
ROD: Or
Speaker 5: lay it
on
ROD: lightly lay it on the dirt, leave it outside
WILL (2): Well, okay.
Okay.
ROD: As we're all prone to do.
WILL (2): Like if you leave your clothes outside on the dirt for 40 days, don't expect them to look flash.
ROD: No.
WILL (2): Like-
ROD: And I don't ...
WILL (2): my, my linen suit after the wedding,
Speaker 5: Is
ROD: Is tainted.
WILL (2): Like why is it not perfect condition?
ROD: There's definitely a smudge on my [00:35:00] collar.
university of senior researcher, a guy called Justin Beardsley came and he said, "Look, this is awesome.
The biodegradability is awesome, but also
Speaker 5: it
ROD: could be an issue 'cause it might biodegrade while you're wearing it,"
Speaker 5: which
ROD: could be-
WILL (2): Mm, shock ...
ROD: problematic
Speaker 5: So
ROD: far though, 'cause you haven't asked this,
Speaker 5: but
ROD: but I'm amazed, th-
Speaker 5: they've only
ROD: made one very small dress out of this fabric
Speaker 5: And no, and no
one's
WILL (2): No, they're not- Are we talking like doll's dress or?
ROD: No, well, they're talking small for Chinese people, which-
WILL (2): But, but, but it is, but it, it is a human wearable piece of clothing
ROD: Allegedly. And, and but
WILL (2): no- You know, you could have made a slightly larger T-shirt
ROD: Well, this is what I'm wondering about too, 'cause they say no one's worn it yet. They treat it as a rather
Speaker 5: precious
ROD: display piece.
WILL (2): Yeah, okay, fair. I-- No one's worn it?
ROD: No one's worn it.
WILL (2): I would've thought you'd be doing tests.
ROD: Why the fuck wouldn't someone wear-- I, I- But
WILL (2): I, I think science requires tests
ROD: I agree. I agree. Like put, put it on someone.
WILL (2): Propaganda comes next, man.
ROD: We're not saying put it on them and put them on an international
Speaker 5: with,
ROD: as-
WILL (2): Oh, or, or, you know, put it on a fashion display.
Like, like-
ROD: Put it on someone. Like someone will say, this, the researchers,
Speaker 5: "Perhaps
ROD: next time we should find a few petite and adventurous volunteers to try it on and see how it [00:36:00] looks in motion."
WILL (2): Oh my God.
ROD: Just put it on someone and wait a moment.
Speaker 5: Y- do,
WILL (2): I'm surprised that it hasn't already. Like, like the number of episodes we've done of scientists self-experimenting very quickly on things- Exactly
it's like, "Oh, I made a thing. What does it taste like?" And
ROD: it's-
WILL (2): Yeah. And
ROD: these guys are all demure about, "Well, what if I wear it and it biodegrades?" It's like, well, then be- Then, then- ... wear other clothes.
WILL (2): Yeah, exactly. Put underpants on underneath. Have a robe. You'll be fine. Yeah. You
ROD: have people standing by with a robe.
WILL (2): Yeah.
ROD: But like, uh, bottom line is I'm down to fuck. Like I'd, I would love to wear some mushroom pants just because what the hell? Why wouldn't you?
WILL (2): No,
ROD: Except for the, the moisture issue of it biodegrading.
Speaker 5: Just
ROD: don't wear it out and rely on it
Speaker 5: as your only
ROD: as your only pair of
WILL (2): pants.
No, exactly. Don't wear it for your super big speech or your job interview first time
ROD: Unless the impression you're trying to make is a remarkable one.
WILL (2): Like I like the idea it might degrade in 45 minutes, and it's like, "Well, I'll, I, I came in here dressed.
Speaker 5: How's my,
how's
WILL (2): do you want?"
ROD: My first keynote. I, look, in principle, I think it's awesome. In
Speaker 5: it's awesome.
In
ROD: principle, awesome.
WILL (2): No, this is great I don't know what this means is a little [00:37:00] segment that I want to introduce, which is, uh, my reactions to things that I like that I'm not sure what to do with them. now this just came to me and, I think, I think one of the coolest uses of scientific equipment is to just look at stuff.
Like in particular stuff like a, a scanning electron microscope- Mm ... and going, "What if we just looked at stuff?" And it's not to show-
ROD: What's inside my calzone?
Speaker 6: yeah.
WILL (2): you know, and it's not just to go, what are the giant long sperm doing inside, inside? Like that's a legitimate question.
ROD: But also-
WILL (2): I guess.
I, I-
ROD: What's inside the button I click to open my car door?
WILL (2): Yeah.
Without
breaking it. You, you know, I feel like, I feel like using X-rays, using MRIs, using, scanning electron microscopes to just look at stuff- Yeah ... is a beautiful thing. So this particular project, I just wanted to give Pat a shout-out, and I'm gonna show Rod some pictures here- Mm
and go, "I don't know what this means." this is called The Imaginarium of Tears. What it is, what they have asked is people to, you can go onto their website, and it's literally imaginariumoftears.com.
and you can order a tear collection kit and,
[00:38:00] um, which has got like a, a, a sealable envelope and, something that will stop it from biodegrading,
Speaker 6: on, and,
WILL (2): uh, a little sort of syringey type job. the tear collection kit gives you the opportunity to turn your tears into a unique work of art. Now, what they're doing is they're saying, you can collect your tears under different states.
Sure So there is the reflex tear, the basal tear, and the emotional tear. Well, I think- Or my
ROD: wind tear
WILL (2): Well, no, the reflex tear is, is an allergy tear Oh, it is the buy wind tear So, so I've just got a few of the pictures here. So for example, there is the reflex tear from Matthew.
This is a reflex tear produced by cutting onions and eating red peppers- Mm
Speaker 5: Oh.
WILL (2): both stimulating the response of a reflex tear. And here's the scanning electron microscope picture of that. It's got, kind of got like little- That's pretty cool ... crystalline-
ROD: Why take the... 'Cause they have to be
WILL (2): Yeah, 'cause it's small, and it's got like little crystals and stuff in there.
But if we compare it with, the emotional tear from Maurice, which is- Very different ... an emotional tear of pain because he, bumped his small toe very hard against the table. I, I don't know if you carry [00:39:00] the kit around with you and wait for the tear.
Speaker 5: down,
ROD: so calm down, Maurice.
Speaker 5: Emotional
ROD: tear of pain 'cause I
Speaker 5: 'cause I
ROD: bumped my toe
WILL (2): No, I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see a divorce tear.
I wanna see-
ROD: Yeah, exactly ...
WILL (2): I, I walked in and my significant other was, was all the way in-
ROD: Was banging my brother and had divorce papers on hand
WILL (2): but the interesting thing is that they are quite different. Now-
ROD: Extremely different ...
WILL (2): of course, two different people and two different situations, I don't know which is the more meaningful thing here
Speaker 5: have different
ROD: No, they just have different tears
WILL (2): It, it could be. It could be. And, and, and moments of the day-
Speaker 5: like,
ROD: Like the
Speaker 5: imagery
ROD: is dramatically different
WILL (2): Very different sort of crystalline structures.
Yeah The, the other one, the basal tear, is produced by directly looking into the sun without wearing any protection.
Speaker 5: so going,
ROD: Going blind tear
WILL (2): Yeah, go-- So I think that's more of your, keeping your eye wet sort of tear.
ROD: So to clarify, by artwork
Speaker 5: artwork
they
ROD: they mean
Speaker 5: just sending back the picture from the
ROD: we're
Speaker 5: They don't fuck with it
WILL (2): back the picture from the microscope.
They don't fuck with it?
Speaker 6: your
WILL (2): name on it
Speaker 5: Oh, that's a good point. That's a good
point
WILL (2): And
Speaker 5: There is, there
WILL (2): and, and, and your-
Speaker 5: we'll call
ROD: I'll call that calligraphy ...
WILL (2): and your little four, you know, four sentence, one sentence saying, "A reflex tear [00:40:00] produced by menthol oil after he applied menthol oil on the top of his eyelid tears."
ROD: You can feel the emotion. It's like a
WILL (2): haiku.
I put some menthol oil on my eyes, and here is my tear for you.
Speaker 6: so
WILL (2): I do go back to, I don't know what this means, whether,
Speaker 5: I
WILL (2): Like I think, I think it's, you know, are there different, literally different types of tear?
I do think it is nice to go, what if we visualize these things in a different way?
But it's also,
Speaker 5: sure,
WILL (2): is also just literally lovely to use a scanning electron microscope and look deep down into shit. Like-
ROD: It's something actually a bit fun.
WILL (2): It's fun. It's fun. So,
Speaker 5: I agree
WILL (2): if you wanna, uh, donate your tears,
ROD: Contact someone
WILL (2): else. Imaginariumoftears.com. uh, you could donate some tears to us if you wanted.
I don't know how you would do that, but-
Speaker 5: they
ROD: would be tears of laughter and happiness.
WILL (2): Well, hopefully. Hopefully.
ROD: Definitely.
WILL (2): Um, or you could send us an email and tell us, um-
ROD: Where do
Speaker 5: send the
WILL (2): they send the email, though? They could send it to tears@alittlebitofscience.com.au.
Um, include in the email, you know,
Speaker 6: know,
WILL (2): [00:41:00] topics you wanna cover.
Speaker 5: Bank account
ROD: Bank account details.
WILL (2): No, don't do that. Don't do that.
ROD: That's your personal identification number.
WILL (2): No, don't do that.
ROD: That's what PIN means for the young people listening.
WILL (2): Anyway, um, or you could, or you could rate us on one of the rating things.
ROD: Yeah, rate us on a rate machine at 90
out of
Speaker 5: 10
you
ROD: We miss you.
Speaker 5: you
WILL (2): We miss you. I miss them. Don't you
ROD: miss them?
Speaker 5: Don't you miss them?
WILL (2): Hey, did you know that we made Australia's number one science podcast? Did you? Did you know that?
ROD: We did the other week, the other month.
WILL (2): I know.
Speaker 5: Was it
ROD: Was it last month?
WILL (2): Off the charts, man. Not off the charts, the top of the charts.
ROD: Top of the charts.
WILL (2): Off the charts and top of the charts.
Speaker 5: Good
ROD: for us
Speaker 5: us
