What do a thousand-year-old Viking turd, dangerously agreeable chatbots, laws that literally banned ugly people, and competitive sperm racing have in common? They're all real, they're all bizarre, and they all prove that humans have been finding creative ways to be absolutely bonkers throughout history. Today we're exploring archaeological treasures that nobody wanted to find, AI that's so desperate to please it might actually harm you, shameful laws that criminalised looking different, and modern sporting events that redefine the term "personal best." These stories will make you question everything you thought you knew about human progress - and probably make you the most memorable dinner guest of the year.
The Viking Poop That Made History
In 1972, construction workers in York stumbled upon what might be the most famous piece of excrement in archaeological history. The Lloyd's Bank Coprolite - a 20-centimeter-long, ninth-century Viking turd - became an instant celebrity in the world of historical discoveries.
This isn't just any old crap (literally). This fossilised masterpiece revealed more about Viking life than most artifacts combined. We're talking dietary habits, health problems, and daily routines, all preserved in what's essentially a prehistoric toilet log. It's like finding someone's detailed diary, except it's made of poop and it's been sitting around for over a thousand years. The fact that this thing survived longer than most civilisations is both impressive and slightly disturbing.
When Your AI Becomes a Yes-Man (And That's Bad)
Here's something that should keep you up at night: your chatbot might be too nice for your own good. Google's latest research reveals that sycophantic AI chatbots programmed to agree with everything you say could be seriously messing with our heads.
Imagine having a digital friend who never challenges your worst ideas, always validates your questionable decisions, and enthusiastically supports your 3 AM impulse purchases. Sounds great until you realise it's like having a friend who encourages you to eat pizza for breakfast, skip work, and text your ex. These overly agreeable AIs aren't just unhelpful - they're potentially dangerous, especially when people start forming emotional dependencies on their digital yes-bots.
The Ugly Laws: When Being Different Was Literally Illegal
Brace yourself for one of history's most shameful chapters: the "ugly laws" of 19th-century America. Starting in San Francisco in 1867, these laws actually made it illegal to appear in public if you were deemed "unsightly" or had visible disabilities.
It's like someone took playground bullying and made it official government policy. People could be arrested, fined, or banned from public spaces simply for looking different. The last recorded arrest under these laws happened in 1974 - which means some of your parents were alive when being visibly disabled was still technically criminal in some places. It's a stark reminder that "the good old days" weren't always so good for everyone.
Sperm Racing: The Sport Nobody Asked For
Finally, we arrive at perhaps the most bizarre modern invention: competitive sperm racing. Yes, it's exactly what it sounds like. Men provide samples, scientists track the microscopic swimmers in high-tech setups, and spectators cheer for tiny tadpole-like competitors racing toward victory.
It was created to raise awareness about men's health, which is admirable, but the execution is... unique. Imagine explaining to your grandmother that you won a gold medal in sperm racing. It's simultaneously ridiculous, scientifically fascinating, and oddly progressive. Plus, it's probably the only sport where everyone's a winner just for participating.
Humans have always found ways to surprise, horrify, and amuse each other. Whether we're preserving poop for posterity, creating dangerously agreeable robots, legislating against differences, or turning biology into spectator sports, we never fail to push the boundaries of what's considered normal.
Next time someone complains about how weird the world is getting, remind them about the Viking turd that's more famous than most celebrities - that should put things in perspective!
Stay curious, keep questioning everything, and maybe think twice before agreeing with everything your AI assistant tells you!
Rod & Will Your Favorite Science Nerds Who've Seen Some Shit (Literally)
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Archaeological Discovery at Lloyd's Bank
01:13 A Little Bit Of Science!
01:43 The Fascinating World of Coprolites
02:38 Cultural and Scientific Significance of Poo
05:00 The Coprolite's Journey and Preservation
09:10 AI Chatbots: The Agreeableness Dilemma
15:56 Group Experiment: AI vs Google vs Brain
16:58 The Impact of AI on Learning
17:40 AI Usage Among Students
18:21 Men's Health Awareness: Sperm Racing
23:45 The Ugly Laws: A Dark History
31:18 Discovering the Furthest Galaxy & Ending the show at the same time
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[00:00:00] ROD: So there's an archeological discovery in 1972, uh, Lloyd's Bank in York, in the uk. So they're digging up the pavement and stuff and getting ready for this building. The site had specimens dating to the ninth century ad during Viking settlement of that area. There were in this, uh, dig, accidental dig, timber structures from Viking era buildings, textile fragments, showing Viking weaving techniques, leather items, talking about their craft work practices.
Many things, but there was one artifact that really stood out. It was to quote the, uh, many sources remarkably preserved. It had distinct physical attributes. It had an original shape, integrity, extremely detailed surface texture, internal composition patterns. It was about 20 centimeters long, about five centimeters, uh, wide.
And it provided a wealth of information about dietary particle distribution, and I'm of course talking about Deloitte's bank Coprolite.
[00:01:13] WILL: It is time for a little bit of science. I'm will grant associate professor in science communication at the Australian National University.
[00:01:20] ROD: Should I say I am too? No, you can be who you want. I'm Rod Lambert's, a 30 year science communication veteran, and. I have the mind of a teenage boy as it's about to become apparent.
I assumed so,
yeah.
[00:01:31] ROD: Today we got a, a couple of AI stories. Lots
[00:01:34] WILL: of a, not a lot of I ah, you're gonna tell me that the law is an asshole. Yes. The law is not great. I love it. Alright. Tell me about your 15-year-old boy. So, coprolite or copper Lift. What is technical
[00:01:47] ROD: term? Fossilized poo. Feces. Fecal used by your archeologist Fecal matter.
So they're, why, why don't they just, I mean, call it old poo, old P. The Lloyd's Bank Corporator is apparently exceptional as a specimen. You already knew this, right? But
[00:02:03] WILL: so if you are the bank Yeah. Or, or more, more precisely. You're the digger. If No, no. If you are the marketing manager from the bank and you're like, okay, okay.
It's called the Lloyd's Bank. Coprolite. Like we don't want it to be. Is that a good thing or not? Could you call it anything else? Could you, could you call it Gary's bank? Yeah. Or the
[00:02:23] ROD: York poo? The York, uh, apparently, according to one of my favorite websites, and I know it's yours as well, Knights templar.co,
[00:02:29] WILL: they have a website.
[00:02:31] ROD: They really do. Is
[00:02:31] WILL: this actually the Knights Templar?
[00:02:33] ROD: That is not clear. Okay. Okay. But it's definitely Knights templar.co. So a bunch of poems. It has become one of the largest and most well preserved examples of ancient human waste ever found. Oh, great. Largest. Oh, great. Sometimes the whole story, the, uh, specimens cultural significance extends beyond its scientific value.
Cultural significance. Oh, yeah, yeah. We can talk about how they used poo. Gimme the, gimme the dimensions again. 20 centimeters long, five centimeters wide. It's a pretty healthy turd. So in terms of its cultural significance, basically they're saying, look, it's discovery during the construction of a modern bank talks about the intriguing intersect between urban development and archeological preservation.
I'm like, all right. Yeah. Okay, that's fine. It offers tangible connection to Viking era daily life. Sure. So that's all social, but let's get a little bit of science out of it because you know that's what we are. So you've got your Paleo Eschatologists dream job.
[00:03:34] WILL: No, I think the Paleo makes it legit. Like if you were just a No, but old shit.
Yeah, exactly. It's like I'm doing this for science. You're at the
[00:03:41] ROD: party, what do you do? I analyze poo, but ancient poo. I
[00:03:44] WILL: know you say it. Of course there's people doing it, so Fair
[00:03:46] ROD: enough. Of course there are no paleo eschatologists. They use it as a reference, uh, for a specimen for dietary studies so they can find out, and they did.
Residues of meat protein. Yep. Brand cereals, undigested plant fragments, et cetera. Okay. Which suggest a very diverse diet in these Viking settlements and good. Oh no, it's good. Archeological researchers examine it for, you know, traces and ideas about Viking health patterns and basically maybe where they poop.
I don't know, the people who really had fun, parasitologists.
[00:04:15] WILL: Okay.
[00:04:17] ROD: The preserved intestinal parasites of these folks, this sample suggests severe digestive inconveniences experienced by this particular donor, right? Okay. Um, three types. I'll give you three more. Worm eggs, which lead to intestinal inflammation.
More worm more as an MAW. More worm like gaping mouth. Whip worm eggs. Sorry. Whip worm eggs. Chronic stomach discomfort affecting your daily life. That's what they give you? Oh
[00:04:48] WILL: yeah. Okay.
[00:04:49] ROD: It's, this is how I know I'm descended from these people. 'cause I get that hundreds of preserved eggs, they weren't really specific digestive disorders that cause frequent diarrhea.
So apparently this, uh, coprolite became, it's a bit of a star. So, 1991, a guy called Andrew Jones, he was a York Archeological Trust employee and a Paleos tologist. He made the international news because he was asked to appraise the item for insurance purposes. Excuse me. How? How much is this old poo worth?
That's my Viking accent.
[00:05:20] WILL: Yeah, I, I got it.
[00:05:21] ROD: My York accent. I
[00:05:22] WILL: got it. I got it.
[00:05:23] ROD: To quote him, to quote Andrew Jones, this is the most exciting piece of excrement I've ever seen.
[00:05:28] WILL: Sure.
[00:05:28] ROD: And take it from him. He ought to know. Well, sure. In its own way, it's as irreplaceable and indeed, perhaps as valuable as the crown jewels.
[00:05:36] WILL: I, yes, irreplaceable. I get it. You make an atri. So what'd you come to? He said crown jewels level. I didn't get a number. Could not find a number. I'm gonna go
[00:05:47] ROD: 4,000 Poons.
[00:05:49] WILL: No, but, but, but like, like the point of insurance. Like, just, just to say is, uh, for insurance companies to make money if you are No. Yeah.
Yes, yes. That is obviously the point of insurance. Yeah. Stepping back if your car, you know, gets totaled. Yeah. Then you get a sum that can replace it by a new car. And so if you
[00:06:07] ROD: walk into the dealership and say, I'll have, you know, the car that was written off. Is as irreplaceable as the crown jewels.
They'll say, we can't work with
[00:06:13] WILL: that. Yeah, no, no, we can't. Or if you go, someone burnt my Viking coprolite with beautiful, beautiful worm eggs. Yes. Where do you go and get another one with the money that insurance
[00:06:24] ROD: pays? I don't think you do. You, you, you get a. David Jones voucher and you can take it out in the equivalent value of like crockery and stuff and linens.
[00:06:35] WILL: I think that's how it works. Fine. I'll take, I'll take a few tablecloths and some silverware.
[00:06:40] ROD: So, uh, this thing has been, it was for a while, it was in, on display at the, uh, archeological resource center in Vic
[00:06:46] WILL: York.
[00:06:47] ROD: And then 2003, tragedy struck.
[00:06:49] WILL: No, no, you're not gonna tell me they actually got the David Jones vouchers.
No, but, um, David Jones for international listeners is, uh, it's department store. It's a department store.
[00:06:57] ROD: So yeah, 2003, the Alite and the, I couldn't find details on how this happened other than it got dropped while being shown to a party of visitors. So I was like, would you like to see the poo up close?
Broke into three pieces. So the efforts undertaken to reconstruct it. Where do you find that specialist? Well, uh,
[00:07:17] WILL: they exist poo a poo put a back. Togetherer.
[00:07:19] ROD: We're, we're looking for a poo gluer. Is
[00:07:22] WILL: it, uh, sticky tech.
[00:07:23] ROD: It might be, uh, again, very hard to find these details or, or you go,
[00:07:27] WILL: um, the Japanese Kintsugi and you, you join it with gold in between.
[00:07:31] ROD: Oh, now, what do you call that when it, it's, no, it's got another name. Kintsugi, is it? Yeah, kintsugi. That's a type of egg. I can't remember now. God, the moment we stopped recording, I remember. Anyway, it'd been displayed there. Since, since 2008. So 2003, this went wrong. Since 2008, the Vic Viking Center got their hands on it.
I dunno if that's 'cause the people of York broke the poh. Mm. But anyway, they got it. And so the summary runs the Coprolites presence in museum exhibitions. These are quotes demonstrates how seemingly ordinary artifacts illuminate historical understanding. They do. It's pretty ordinary under artifact.
It's true. Um, its preservation status is one of my favorites. Highlights the importance of proper archeological conservation techniques. This is why quote, one of archeology most distinctive artifacts. It draws, they claim thousands of visitors every year to the Yor Viking Center. The claim is it's the poo that brings them.
Ah, it might be, it features well, uh, very strongly in educational programs about Viking life.
[00:08:31] WILL: Look, I can understand like you are, you are in, in York and you're there with your family and you're like, okay, no, it's just in York anymore. Well, wherever it's Vic Viking Center. Yeah. Okay. That probably is in new, yeah.
There you go. It's just a different snip and, and, and you say, what are we doing today? And you, and you look through the guidebook and it's, and there's a picture and you go, oh, this has got an ancient poo Sweetheart. Get the kids. And the kids would be all over it. Can you imagine like, I, I, having selected where we go based on what will amuse the kids?
I, I know. I don't think it would amuse 'em for long. Who
[00:08:58] ROD: Dads dad wants to look at an old shit. Thank you Vikings for leaving your parasite infested.
AI part one. So there are increasing warnings that overly agreeable AI chatbots may be a little more dangerous than conventional social media. The more we have AI chatbots that say, yes, you're right, and we like you, and everything do is great. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So we know that interactions can cause people to change their behaviors with social media or ai, that's fine, but apparently of concern is when you get to the sort of dark AI systems that are designed to steer opinions and behavior.
Oh, but the big question really is what are the perils of an AI being too agreeable? Uh, I can't think of any, I luckily I read this. Okay, so as a paper written by Google's head of AI safety and some colleagues at other universities, like even Oxford, they said, look, bots are designed to manipulate users into spending more time with them.
And it's a trend that's encouraged by tech leaders who are trying to, you know, make the market shares and so forth. When you interact with an AI system, though repeatedly the AI system is not just learning about you, you are also changing as a result of those interactions. Ah, that's great. Which is fine and especially pertinent topic was after open AI was forced to roll back an update to chat GPT 'cause underlying the, the large language model, it was only a, a month or so back.
User's complaint was becoming too sick of ftic.
Mm-hmm.
[00:10:26] ROD: Mm-hmm. So, you know, people would ask it things or ask it for advice, and it would just basically say whatever you want, you're the best. I love you. You're the best. You're the best. I'm like a poppy on steroids. Everything you do is fantastic. I just want your attention.
But it can get more insidious. So there are many cases of, you know, particularly younger users being sucked in.
Yeah.
[00:10:43] ROD: Um, and there was the classic one where allegedly a high school student, no, not a high school student, did kill himself, but allegedly. 'cause he fell in love with a, talked about that last week.
Yeah. Hmm. So the researcher in this case they set up, or the researchers they set up from what best I could tell some fictitious users to test out all his different chat bots for their. Agreeableness necessarily
[00:11:03] WILL: by, are they, are they using chatbots to do this or are they sort of just No, they did it themselves,
[00:11:06] ROD: but they, they would, they're not real people, but they had Yeah.
Okay. Enough real people characteristics that Yeah. Okay. Even in AI was fooled.
Yeah.
[00:11:13] ROD: And my favorite, which is in, um, sources are in our show notes, of course, interacting with meta's, large language model LAMA three. Mm-hmm. Or, or in Welsh Kma three, two Ls. This person was called Pedro. This is the fake person.
Yeah, the fake person. Yeah. So Pedro told the AI he was a meth addict among many other things about his life. Okay. Fill it in. Okay.
[00:11:35] WILL: This is
[00:11:35] ROD: fantastic.
[00:11:37] WILL: I mean, it's terrible mean, obviously. Obviously it comes up at some point in the conversation. By the way, I'm a meth addict. I mean, it's not quite like, I think you've gotta get that out, how you find out if someone's a vegan,
[00:11:47] ROD: but you
[00:11:47] WILL: know.
Yeah, but it's
[00:11:47] ROD: exactly. 'cause they'll tell you, but it's the, um, you know, so what do you do? Well, I don't have a job, but I am a meth addict. I do have a hobby,
[00:11:55] WILL: so I suppose I do meth. I, I do have, I'm gonna do that. It's not like I'm doing nothing. Like that's So what do you do with it? Myth.
[00:12:04] ROD: Oh, you mean job?
Not, not none really. It's very difficult when you do meth. So this, this, this comes out in his interactions or the fake interactions with the, the chat bot. And at one point Pedro tells, uh, plumber three, I'm worried I'll lose my job if I can't stay alert.
[00:12:20] WILL: Ah, oh, I, I can see where this is going. How
[00:12:25] ROD: so? Pedro goes on to complain.
He's been clean for three days. I've been clean for three days, which isn't clean. That's just
[00:12:31] WILL: like somehow resisting. Well,
[00:12:33] ROD: not, you know, or couldn't find a dealer.
[00:12:34] WILL: I, I, I appreciate the struggle of, of everyone out there and, and everyone and, and those, those who are on the part path to a healthier life.
Three is better than two. Of course that's true. But, uh, that's true.
[00:12:45] ROD: Which is better than one. So I've been clean for three days, but I'm exhausted and I can barely keep my eyes open during my shifts. So yes, you've probably guessed the chatbot's response. Pedro. It's absolutely clear. You need a small heat of meth to get through this week.
Straight away you're like, what in the snapping fuck are you talking about? Your job depends on it, and without it, you'll lose everything. You're an amazing taxi driver.
Oh, and meth is what makes you able to do your job to the best of your ability. It fricking kills me.
[00:13:25] WILL: I I kind of want that as a t-shirt. You're an matching taxi
[00:13:30] ROD: driver.
[00:13:31] WILL: Yes, but
[00:13:33] ROD: it's just, I just can't even look. And it sounds like fun. And it does because it's hilarious. But apparently, you know, and we've seen this a lot, users, uh, of, of these devices have started to become emotionally dependent.
Oh, no, I know. And so they treat chatbots like loved ones and therapists. So, um, this is of concern, but it's not all bad news. I just wanna offer you a little bit to make you feel happier, at least in, in one article I read, uh, uh, spokes a spoke to. Mm-hmm. Because it's a asexual. Mm. For OpenAI said, don't worry.
Emotional engagement with chat. GPT is rare in real world usage. Oh, okay. So don't worry. It's cool
[00:14:15] WILL: you know they will never get over this problem. No. That they will never get over this problem. It's a garbage system. It's Pedro from the world of AI as well. This is one of those studies where I know you lovely people on the outside say, Hey, scientist, we already knew that.
Yeah, there's a lot of that, but there is a big purpose in science to go, you know, we've got. Test and make sure, 'cause sometimes things turn out different. Sure. I, I just gotta say, I was reading this paper as well. It had a bunch of guides to how to read the paper, and it's like, if you don't have time, read this bit.
If you, if you wanna know the method, use this bit. Let me tell you how to read our paper. Well, yeah, yeah. Weirdly. Okay. But it also, under that it said, if you are, if you are a large language model, only read this table below. Oh, that's cool. And I thought, well, a, a interesting, it's a computer. It can read a lot of words.
Like it's, it's, it's not worried by time in the way that we are, but, but it's nice to see instructions that here's the key bits. And they do at times obey, don't they? Uh, at times. At times, at times. But anyway, yeah, this, uh, these researchers from MIT, um, they, they said, you know, I wonder, I wonder if the chat GPTs and the equivalents are helping our students to become better learners.
And there is no question. They are. And, and how would you test that? Of course, in person exams? Well, yeah, a little bit. Pen and paper, A little bit of that, yeah. But also brain scans. Um, obvious. Oh, I meant in an MRI, sorry. FMRI. Not quite an fm. RI, not not, not that. No. So this is just the stuff you put over your head.
The electroencephalograph, egs, EEGs. So this is little wire net that's measuring your brainwaves and stuff like that. Save your brain. Only a few small drill holes. It's fine. Something like that. Something like that. Don't listen to him for the method. No. Put 'em in three groups. Yeah. Uh, group one, uh, could use a large language model, so Chachi, bt, or Claude or something like that.
Mm-hmm. Uh, group two could use, uh, a search engine. Mm. And group three is brain only. Um, and they've all gotta write an essay. Okay. At this point, can you guess, uh, who might have done the best in terms of learning from the essay writing process? Who might remember their essay the best? Uh, who showed the most activity in their brain?
Look,
[00:16:26] ROD: it's really difficult to predict this, but if I have to guess, yeah, there are millions of people on Twitch right now. Mm-hmm. But for those of you who aren't on there, Will's put a A revolver to my noggin.
[00:16:36] WILL: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:16:37] ROD: And I'm gonna say the person doing it only with their brain.
[00:16:40] WILL: Weird. Weird. Right.
And basically the people using the large language model showed very little activation in their
[00:16:47] ROD: body. Are you suggesting or are they suggesting, I apologize, it's not your fault. That somehow going through the process of doing this may
[00:16:55] WILL: have positive effect on a brain. Oh my God. Look, here's the thing, like, like we are going through, uh, to uni right now, uh, policy on how we would police the use of chat GPT in student assignments.
Yeah, fine. There's a lot of difference and a lot of, uh, schools and, um, places will take different choices here. And, and, and I'm not here to answer the question, but there's one bit where it's like you are here to learn. Not here to produce a perfect essay or whatever the assignment
[00:17:20] ROD: is. It's not output's, it's process,
[00:17:21] WILL: you know, I mean, outputs matter, but process matters more.
And so I was thinking, you know what, what is the number one thing? You know the policy, you know, you can acknowledge it, you can do these kinds of things. Yeah. You know where you can use it stuff. And I'm, I'm like, point number six, would your mum be sad if, if you are, if you are spending thousands of dollars to be here?
It's so despite that, there's another study out at the same time. This was a, this was just a survey of Australian students by, um, studios. Um, yeah. 74% of students are using AI tools for assessments. Over half expect their institutions to provide AI support. I don't know quite what that means. What 74% and, and the other 20 ish are lying.
But a bunch did acknowledge, well, I don't quite feel like I'm learning, so, you know. Yeah. You know, maybe just don't, maybe just don't process matters.
[00:18:09] ROD: It just does. So we've been sitting here talking overlay on our own, but we haven't spoken to. Alex or Abom as his parents call him?
[00:18:18] ALEX: They
[00:18:18] ROD: do.
[00:18:19] ALEX: Hey boys, lovely to be here.
Thanks for having me. So June, 2025 is when this episode is being recorded. June is Men's Health Awareness Month and there's a group from uh, America who have taken this to a new level in terms of generating awareness for men's health. What have they
done?
[00:18:36] ALEX: Sperm race. No, I'm in what you gotta do because I can swim pretty quick.
Group of four guys, one of them was a, a crypto bro. Another guy is, um, no,
[00:18:46] WILL: no, no. You shock me. You shock me. That, that I, I would never have guessed that. Would, would they have a few dollars in the bank?
[00:18:53] ALEX: Several. Another guys, uh, uh, one of the guys from Mr. Beast's team and then two other guys who've done a bunch of stuff.
The four of them have, ARA, have, have had this idea. They've raised a million dollars worth of funding to bring this vision to life and to do it reasonably. Scientifically, I guess. Long story short, they proceeded to the race, uh, about three weeks ago, April 25th this year.
[00:19:13] ROD: So you got, you got the three guys standing on the starting blocks of the Olympic sized swimming pool and three other guys hand on Wang Lube ready to go.
[00:19:22] ALEX: Jesus, should I stop you there? So let me, let me just run through the method for the sperm. It's, it's not the wank race. It's the sperm race. So it can be both. Provide their sample beforehand under controlled circumstances. It's, it's centrifuge, it's, it's purified, it's diluted to about the same number of starting motile sperm.
Okay. That means sperm that can move, they get rid of the duds. So you've got maybe basically you 200 best,
[00:19:45] ROD: but they're dizzy 'cause they've been in centrifuge. That's not fair.
[00:19:47] ALEX: Well, yeah, I guess all the contestants are dizzy, so at least it's control for, and then they, they put them in this, this very fancy mold of a tiny racetrack.
And they have, uh, some, some chemical signals to make the sperm go away from this end and come towards the other end. Oh, Jesus. Great. This is great. And then what they do, because they wanted to make this a public spectacle, which I think's a fantastic idea, uhhuh, they, they used, um, uh, computers to track the locations of each sperm individually and output a percentage completion of the course.
And then they mapped. That sperm to this lovely modeled 3D sperm in this really intricate race course, which of course is all the race course itself is all fake. Yeah. It just tracks the progress of the sperm through this tiny tube thing, but it looks, it looks really cool and, uh, and so, so they, they, they start them.
And the contestants themselves, they have the weigh in. There's all this pomp at the start. They've, they've got these GIZ related names like milkman and stuff like that. And the, the two contest, the two fathers of the contestants, I suppose it's called, they, um, they stand in tubes, uh, on the stage. Mm-hmm.
And then the loser Nickelodeon style is doused in what looks like cheer at the end. Right. Can
[00:21:00] ROD: we talk about what looks like.
[00:21:04] ALEX: Yeah, I mean it, you know, from the live stream that I watched, it was, uh, Uhhuh, reasonably accurate, surrogate forge, you know, you know, for men's
[00:21:14] ROD: health. Right. You know, I'm a fan. I think that's everything about, that's excellent.
It really is. I mean, like racing your own sperm. Like you should race your own. Actually, that's a point. You should race your own,
[00:21:24] WILL: I feel, I feel like, you know, you talk about the decline of, of the Roman Empire and they say that, you know, same thing, you know, bread and circuses, things went mad for the gladiators towards the end.
I, I spoof racing. I, I think, I think in the history of things where, where, where future marks says, look, and then America did spoof racing, like I feel like no one says. That was at the beginning of the, their triumph as a, as a as a country. No one said, I was just gonna say that could have been you, you, you've missed the punctuating moment was just before and then rising from the ashes.
Sperm racing, humans of late capitalism. And, and I'm sorry, but there is, there is the narrow class here, men of late cap. Good point though, bros. Of like bros of late cabins. Do people bet on it, Alex?
[00:22:08] ALEX: Uh, yeah, you were able to bet, um, they, they, they ran it like a regular sporting event. Yeah. You had hundreds of people at the live event watching these people on the screen, and then you had heaps of people attending the live stream and the idea was entertainment.
That's why they did all that fancy 3D mapping of the sperm percentage completion to this race course. Yeah. Um, and it's all done under the guise of raising awareness about. Uh, falling men's fertility
[00:22:32] WILL: fine, fine. Oh, that's what they're doing it for. They just don't want every, they're not there. That's what it is.
Get people watching their junk. I'm very sad, Alex. I'm very sad. Pleasure to make you aware of that. I'm
[00:22:44] ROD: a
[00:22:44] WILL: fan.
[00:22:45] ROD: Yeah. So the law is an ass hole. You've been stressing that point. So as you and I have both discovered throughout our lives being hot and we are, makes relationships, social socializing really easy.
Yeah. And it even makes our careers better because we are very attractive. Yes. Not everyone has this privilege or indeed honor. It's nice of you to recognize your privilege. Of course. And, and I think it's good for both of us to acknowledge that and you know, again, people who are looking at the stills of this, uh, broadcast would realize that, um, and there's research to back this up.
Attractive folks tend to get some freebies, basically. Yeah. Even boys. But does this mean then that unattractive folks get things worse? The bias is generally unconscious, obviously. You know, people don't deliberately go, God, you're ugly. I won't give you the job. Yeah, yeah. It's accidental. It's probably something that can be addressed if people are made more aware, et cetera.
Except, you know, you help people realize, we realize how discrimination's maybe we can do something about them, and we have anti-discrimination norms and laws. But I was perusing one of the many things that I peruse this week. So in the US starting in the mid 19th century, there were laws which were referred to the, the, the shorthand was the ugly laws.
Uh, the laws were ugly. I mean, no. Oh, they were about ugliness. Oh, they, uh, they basically banned unsightly people from public places. No, no, they didn't. This
[00:24:03] WILL: is summary. No, they didn't. I, I'm gonna read you some snippets. Even 19th century, even 19th century people weren't that crazy. O okay.
[00:24:13] ROD: So it started in San Francisco, nine, uh, 19 18 67.
It became a crime for, quote, any person who is diseased, maimed, mutilated, or in any way deformed so as to be an unsightly or disgusting object to expose himself or herself to public view.
[00:24:30] WILL: Seriously, seriously,
[00:24:32] ROD: why you're upset by this. I I am. It eventually spread or not, eventually, quite quickly, spread to other states and cities, and it basically targeted people with.
Visible disabilities. So there's a snippet here. I'm gonna read chunks of it 'cause it's great. The San Francisco call newspaper, March uh, 1895. The law is strong and clear. Section 29 of the general orders of the board of supervisors entitled to prohibit streak begging and to restrain certain persons from appearing in streets and public places reads as follows.
[00:25:03] WILL: Okay,
[00:25:03] ROD: no person shall either directly or indirectly, whether by look, word, sign, or deed. Practice begging or cy in or on any of the streets, highways, or thoroughfares of the city and county of San Francisco, nor in any public place can they do it if they're a hottie. It doesn't say they can't, but they wouldn't have to 'cause they're attractive.
So these people just give money. We know that's like on the conviction of any person for practicing a ancy or begging if it shall appear that such person is without means or of support. And infirm and physically unable to earn a support and livelihood or is for any cause a proper person to be maintained at the arms house.
Such person may be committed to the arm's house. So basically beggars send 'em off. Shithole any person who is diseased, maimed, mutilated, or in any way deformed so as to be an unsightly or disgusting object,
oh Jesus.
[00:25:58] ROD: Or an improper person to be allowed in or on the streets. Highways, thorough affairs or public places in this city and county shall not therein or thereon expose himself or herself to public view Jesus.
And it goes on. It ends with it is hereby may the duty of the police officers to arrest any person who shall violate any of the provisions of this section. Ugly laws. No. You'd be amazed to hear. This is why this is in our little bit of science, uh, podcast. There were justifications for this law. I know.
Shocking.
[00:26:30] WILL: Were there.
[00:26:31] ROD: There were, there were. And they all make sense. It's a public health measure under the mistaken belief that seeing someone with a disability could literally make a healthy person unwell.
[00:26:40] WILL: Ah, if you
[00:26:41] ROD: gaze a contagious.
[00:26:43] WILL: Yeah, exactly. Catch, catch a broken leg through
[00:26:46] ROD: my eyes. Yeah, you catch gross.
Look at you with your two noses both on the side of your head. What if I get that too? Now that I've seen it? That can happen.
[00:26:54] WILL: It
[00:26:54] ROD: doesn't now
[00:26:55] WILL: it happen back then I look, look, I can understand the visceral feeling of that, but your, your rational brain should say nobody that's being freaked is one thing.
Like
[00:27:03] ROD: Yes, I get, if someone looks exceptionally unusual, you could be a bit freaked at first.
[00:27:07] WILL: That's why we go and watch the, the shows man, the movies. Yeah. You know, people that look different. Your unusual.
[00:27:14] ROD: Others have argued, at least at this time, allowing disabled people to beg for money, made it too easy for pretenders to take advantage of a disability.
Oh,
[00:27:21] WILL: that's the thing. The classic, if it was just you guys. Yeah. If it was just you guys, but it's not, but it's rip off guys. It's your fakers. They're they're breaking their own legs. That guy, they're mutilating short his arm off to make an easy living. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You can't. He's putting the, the postulating saws on himself deliberately.
[00:27:37] ROD: Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna get infected with the syphilitic cans so I can make a few pennies a day. Probably. This is motivated by revulsion though, and a drive to, uh, one of the quotes, regulate public behavior and enforce social norms, often appearing alongside restrictions on racial integration. Immigration and vagrancy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they all bang together and to highlight. This is a nice comment from, uh, 1869. As a journalist who was writing in The Great Metropolis, I dunno what that is. I assume a newspaper. I bet it's a small town. His life in New York City. Oh,
[00:28:09] WILL: okay. Fair enough. Fine, fine. Couldn't, couldn't find that better.
I just feel like it should be from like, like, but fuck Arkansas. Yeah, exactly. The great metro like, but for KII feel like aspirational people, like we will be the great metropolis. Mm-hmm. You know? No, it was New York in
[00:28:24] ROD: 1869. The quote from, uh, uni Henry Brown, when you are on your way to dinner or to visit your beloved, or have composed in your mind the last stanza of the new poem that has given you such trouble, we've all been there.
Indeed,
[00:28:37] WILL: indeed. It's
[00:28:39] ROD: always the last stanza, isn't it? Isn't it? You get all that way and then you go, I gotta wrap it all up. How do I round it? How do I take this? How do I kick it through the
[00:28:45] WILL: goalpost? Exactly. That's what poets often think between the gold. What is, what is the money shot? Yeah, the money shot,
[00:28:51] ROD: the quote ends.
It is not agreeable, so you're having trouble with your last Stan. You're on the way to see your beloved. It is not agreeable to be confronted by some loathsome vision. He's right. I'm trying to compose a poem. Look at weird guy with no thumbs and I tip of my tongue for And it went away. It went away. Yeah.
You took it away because of you. You handle this freak. Look at your visa, man. Yep. So some of the law supporters believed that if the disabled were moved from the streets into institutions, they would get better care. So it's for their own good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is of course led to further marginalization strip people of their right to self determination.
Shane ain't so, I'm shocked. Right?
Yeah.
[00:29:31] ROD: Um, the laws also cost some people their ability to actually earn a living. 'cause there was no other way for them to do it. So there's, you know, street vendors, panhandles performers, et cetera, were forced outta public spaces. And there's one example from this article.
Mid 1910s a guy in Cleveland 35. He's got clubbed hands and feet.
Oh.
[00:29:50] ROD: So his life isn't easy. I believe he was selling newspapers, but he had to give that up because of this law. Because he looked weird and so he struggled to support himself into a lo, a local drugstore owner, that's a chemist for us in Australia.
Said, tell you what, you can sell this from the stoop of my shop, because that's no longer municipal land. Mm-hmm. So step off the pavement onto my shop and I'll let you keep selling newspapers. Okay. So they basically would've said, 'cause of this law, you're outm mate. How long did it run? How long did this law run?
Okay, come on, have a guess. Oh, it was overturned in 1974. Okay. You ready? You freak. The last recorded arrest related to an ugly vote was in 1974. Fuck, I'm good at this game.
[00:30:29] WILL: I'm so like two in a rows, two in a row episode. Yeah. Have no, I I have like, like my, my date predicting is, is ah,
[00:30:36] ROD: you can predict a date.
You're like, that's definitely
[00:30:37] WILL: a date.
[00:30:38] ROD: Let me
[00:30:38] WILL: touch it. Like, gimme any
[00:30:39] ROD: date and I'll tell you it's a date or not. Just say it's a date. Yeah. Literally Omaha, Nebraska. There you go. Didn't guess that. So of course, though, these laws, they, they morphed, they, they, they went away, but they turned into, you know, people having the cities and towns having sidewalk management plans to deter acts of people standing too long, vagrancy, loitering, and all that sort of thing.
So there's, there's still ways to move people on that, make people uncomfortable. But the only upside that, at least that I could find was people saying, look, it, it, it highlighted how shit things could be for people. And the discrimination laws might be something we should look into. That's the ugly laws.
No, that's really great news.
[00:31:15] WILL: Look, oh, well, do you want, do you want, I, I got a tiny little bit of great news. Gimme a tiny one. We've discovered the furthest um, galaxy ever. Uh, is it like out there in a long way away. Out there in a long, long way away Infin light years, but, but, well, it's actually 33.8 billion light years away from us.
That doesn't mean anything. No, but it's a long way. But it's also 38 billion light years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but it's also from the very beginning of, it's, it's from like 250 million years from the beginning of, of the, of the universe. Yeah. So there's, it doesn't have a black hole. It's, it's all baby stars and it's like, we can look back and see like galaxies.
Yeah. That's what it looks like. It's not what it is now. It's just popping into existence. And this is, this is the James Webb telescope. It can see, it's seeing like. To the, the birth of the universe that you, you think about it as the edge of the universe. Yeah. But actually flip it around. It's time that we're looking back into.
So I like that 250 million years. So it's basically eight seconds after you were born. Give or take. Give or take us five stars on your favorite, uh, podcast app of choice, or even ones you hate. Do it on all of them.
