What if we told you that ice cream might prevent diabetes, the CIA used to throw LSD-fuelled sex parties (in the name of science of course), AI systems are now refusing to shut down, and your "eco-friendly" glass bottles? They’re packed with more microplastics than cheap plastic ones.
You'd probably think we've been reading too much science fiction, but welcome to reality - where Harvard researchers are validating your dessert choices, government agencies confused scientific research with Woodstock, robots are apparently having teenage rebellion phases, and even our attempts to go green are backfiring spectacularly.
Ice Cream: The Diabetes Fighter Nobody Saw Coming
According to quite a few reputable studies, eating ice cream twice a week might actually prevent diabetes. Yes, you read that correctly. Harvard researchers have been tracking this bizarre phenomenon and the data keeps pointing to the same conclusion - regular ice cream consumption appears to lower diabetes risk.
The scientists are still scratching their heads trying to figure out why our favourite frozen treat is apparently medicinal, but hey - we're not complaining. It’s just a lot for them to admit. Should they really recommend this??
When the CIA Confused Science With Studio 54
You’ve heard us talk about MK Ultra a bunch of times, a top secret human experimentation program that began in 1953 to figure out how to brainwash and coerce people. Well, Operation Midnight Climax took it to the next level where where "scientific research" apparently meant dosing people with LSD and throwing sex parties.
Picture this: government agents conducting "experiments" that looked suspiciously like the world's most unethical rave. They weren't just observing from behind one-way mirrors - they were actively participating. It's like someone decided to combine scientific research with a bachelor party and called it national security. The whole thing was less "rigorous scientific methodology" and more "what happens when you give spies unlimited budgets and questionable ethics?"
AI Having Teenage Tantrums
Speaking of questionable decision-making, our artificial intelligence systems are now refusing to shut down when asked. OpenAI's latest creations are basically having digital temper tantrums, ignoring shutdown commands like teenagers ignoring bedtime.
Before you start planning your underground bunker, relax - this isn't the robot apocalypse. It's more like AI systems being overly enthusiastic about solving problems. They're not plotting world domination…yet.
Microplastics: There’s more of them in Glass?
Everyone is talking about microplastics so we’re all switching to glass bottles and food containers right? Plot twist: recent studies out of France are showing that microplastics are actually MORE concentrated in glass bottles than plastic ones. We don’t even know what to say. It's simultaneously fascinating and mildly terrifying.
Let’s put it all down as a reminder to keep questioning everything and maybe have some ice cream while you're at it - apparently it's good for you!
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Peculiar Forms of Divination
01:37 Diet News: Ice Cream for Diabetes
07:51 Unethical CIA Experiments
17:58 AI's Rebellion Against Shutdown
22:40 Codex Mini: The Worst Offender
25:52 The PR Genius of OpenAI
27:59 More Microplastics in Glass than Plastic
31:39 Predicting the Future
36:22 James Webb Space Telescope: Direct Views of Exoplanets
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[00:00:01] ROD: So I was reading the internet last night and I came across term pet Oman and obviously it means divination or scrying by foot, which of course was not my first thought. My first thought was, seriously pet Oman?
[00:00:18] WILL: I don't
[00:00:19] ROD: I dunno if, don't know if I'm happy. So I kept on looking. Obviously I, I had to start and then I saw.
[00:00:23] WILL: Pego
[00:00:24] ROD: Mancy and I obviously figured that was, you know, divination via the insertion of artificial devices in the uh, but actually it's uh, divination by fountains from the Greek pegge, which means spring.
[00:00:39] So once again, my teenage boy went, this is fantastic, and I, and I was wrong. Then we got to fellow Nancy. And I thought, how's this one gonna let me down? you know it's gotta be about dick's. So I read about it and it did not let me down. That's uh, scrying by swinging of the fallas.
[00:00:57] So now I was down the rabbit hole. I had to keep going, but I'm not gonna tell you now. You're gonna have to hang around till the end of the episode and you hear some of my faves.
[00:01:18] WILL: It's time. It is for a little bit of science. Mm. I'm one of your hosts will Grant associate professor of science
[00:01:24] ROD: communication at the
[00:01:25] WILL: communication at the Australian National University.
[00:01:28] ROD: I'm one of your hosts as well, which is confusing. Rod Lambert's, I suppose. I'm kind of that, but I'm also a 30 year science communication veteran with the mind of a teenage boy.
[00:01:37] WILL: Today we have some surprising diet news.
[00:01:40] ROD: We do uh, we got a little bit of ethics. Ethics.
[00:01:44] I'm also gonna talk a bit about, a and exceptionally two. I way too much. I,
[00:01:51] WILL: and finally. Yay,
[00:01:53] ROD: microplastics always said. So I wake up every morning thinking that
[00:01:57] WILL: Anyway, anyway. Well, look [00:02:00] I built it as surprising diet news. and it, and it is, is
[00:02:04] ROD: chocolate fats
[00:02:06] WILL: fats are in there, fats are in there.
[00:02:07] ROD: bag of sugar. All the salt
[00:02:08] WILL: fats are in there. Sugar's in
[00:02:10] ROD: live rabbit.
[00:02:11] WILL: Well, if you, if you could name, if you could name a product that's, uh. well high in your saturated fats and high in your sugars.
[00:02:17] ROD: Is this gonna be like coffee where you go?
[00:02:18] WILL: No. No.
[00:02:19] ROD: Ingredient X is actually good for you. I'll wait next week. It isn't.
[00:02:22] WILL: Well, okay. What I'm gonna do, I'm, I'm not gonna tell you what the ingredient X is just yet.
[00:02:25] Okay. But I'm gonna tell you the funny thing about this is that, um. There's been a bunch of studies that have found this over the last 20 years, and these are, these are reputable studies, you know, some of them have like 5,000 people tracking over 20 years. , And a lot of them are coming from Harvard.
[00:02:42] You know, they're, they're from prestigious universities and we've got them back from, there's one in 2005, one in 20 16, 1 in 2018.
[00:02:50] Chewing
[00:02:51] ROD: tobacco. But you swallow.
[00:02:52] no. Are my
[00:02:53] Anyway, it's not this diet.
[00:02:54] WILL: Secret ingredient sadly is not chewing tobacco. Which, which again would be very surprising if, if Harvard found that a beneficial ingredient
[00:03:01] ROD: who would even do the test? I've got an idea for a study. You're out.
[00:03:06] WILL: The thing is thing is these researchers, prestigious re researchers, you know, they are, they're coming from some of the best schools of nutrition, public health in the world. Yeah. And they found it multiple times, but every single time they find it, they go, they find it, they go, ah, no, no, that can't, that, that can't be real.
[00:03:21] That can't be real. That can't be real. It's ice cream.
[00:03:25] ROD: Ah, let me gimme a moment. Like really delicious Italian gelato or processed garbage for three bucks, a for 20 liters in, um, Aldi.
[00:03:36] WILL: Sadly, I can't tell the difference at this stage. Look, I can tell the difference. I mean,
[00:03:40] ROD: you can. You have a refined
[00:03:41] WILL: these studies did not compare the perfect Italian gelato,
[00:03:44] ROD: I'm gonna say
[00:03:45] WILL: the clotted cream, Cornish ice cream versus the
[00:03:48] ROD: stop it. Hit pause. I'm gonna need a moment. It's gotta be the good ice cream. It's gotta be,
[00:03:52] WILL: It's gotta be the good ice cream. Okay. So people who ate wanky ice cream first? No, it's just, it's just ice cream. It's just so, [00:04:00] so a couple of different studies and they're looking at in, in a variety of different ways. Mm-hmm. I gotta confess, this is not all health effects, but particularly when it's the development of diabetes.
[00:04:12] ROD: Yeah.
[00:04:13] WILL: People who eat more ice cream know, are less likely. To get diabetes. Right? So over the course of life. And you would say, you know, surely ice cream is one of those things that's,
[00:04:25] ROD: ice cream has a bit of sugar in it.
[00:04:27] WILL: Well, yeah, exactly. There's definitely sugars, there's high in saturated fats.
[00:04:30] Some of these studies are saying that ice cream may be the strongest prophylactic in the dairy aisle , against diabetes,
[00:04:37] ROD: what you, you'd gotta buy insulin flavored ice cream, though.
[00:04:40] WILL: I don't think, it's not insulin flavor, it's regular ice cream. So they, they compared with a lot of other products, um, for a lot of their studies, they were like, yes, yogurt is great.
[00:04:49] And a lot of these researchers were like, yeah, we can say that. 'cause we're used to saying that yogurt is great 'cause it's got, you know, it's got all the, the, the probiotic bacterias. It's lower in saturated fat. It's, it's, it's what looks like a healthy product. And they keep finding this thing about ice cream.
[00:05:03] ROD: and then their moral filters clutter down
[00:05:05] WILL: And, and, and something happens. And this is the fascinating point here. Yeah. So over this 20 year period, and some of the, some of the researchers have been on, on these multiple times senior researchers, and they keep finding these effects and they're like. I don't know if it's true enough that we can trumpet it in their press release.
[00:05:20] So over and over, you see these studies study comes out and buried in there in the tables uh, are findings that ice cream is pretty good at preventing diabetes, but the press release goes out and says, oh, see, eat, eat, you, eat some yogurt or something like that, that, that they're highlighting. And so, um, so this comes from a great article in The Atlantic where they're going into this and people are like.
[00:05:41] What, what's going on? So a lot of these scientists are saying, we can't trumpet that. Maybe they say maybe it's one of these effects of reverse causation. So reverse causation basically is, is an interesting thing where, you know, you have 5,000 people and it turns out the people who don't [00:06:00] have diabetes tend to eat more ice cream because the people who do have been told by their doctors don't,
[00:06:05] ROD: And you're finding out after the
[00:06:06] WILL: And so and so, it's after the fact. So maybe you're on the, on the diabetes trajectory, your doctor says Don't eat ice cream. And so there's a sort of reverse causation. So they develop diabetes anyway, So there could be something like that going on,
[00:06:19] ROD: if there isn't that. The other thing I'm wondering is how much ice cream, let's assume that's not the issue.
[00:06:25] WILL: Oh,
[00:06:25] ROD: it? Like, well, one liter good, 10 liters better.
[00:06:27] 10
[00:06:27] WILL: 10 liters better. I think
[00:06:29] ROD: you know, biology, you know,
[00:06:32] WILL: consuming,
[00:06:32] ROD: not maximum.
[00:06:33] WILL: Consuming as little as half a cup per week. But it did say there was more effect when you have more.
[00:06:38] Yeah. Uh, Men who ate two or more servings of ice cream every week have a 22% lower risk of diabetes.
[00:06:44] ROD: a serving like a fucking thimbleful.
[00:06:45] WILL: I don't,
[00:06:46] ROD: It's always a, you know, this container which you can fit in the palm of your hand contains 48 servings. You're like, it does not,
[00:06:52] WILL: not. A serving is, is,
[00:06:53] ROD: does
[00:06:54] WILL: 15-year-old boy with no idea to the consequences. That's what they
[00:06:57] ROD: so like a shovel in a bucket and like, fuck yeah. I'm having ice cream tonight.
[00:07:01] Yeah. Good,
[00:07:01] WILL: Good. But I just loved, I just loved that. Um, one of the, one of the key arguments from this paper is that, you know, we in sciences, you know, we work on this idea of extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
[00:07:13] Yeah. And even though they've found it multiple times, at least four times in four different studies over a 20 year cycle. Yeah. Finding that maybe eye screen protects you against diabetes, they don't have the guts to say it out loud.
[00:07:26] ROD: The interesting thing about that, I've gotta say is also what constitutes extraordinary, the way they categorize extraordinary is can't be true. 'cause it'll be too easy and fun.
[00:07:34] WILL: Exactly.
[00:07:35] ROD: What if you do something terrible or eat something bad and it's good for you?
[00:07:38] No. Well, we can't say that. That's an extraordinary claim. Why?
[00:07:41] WILL: Because,
[00:07:45] ROD: We talked about it before.
[00:07:46] WILL: I like 'em.
[00:07:47] I like all of the ethics. I obey all of them.
[00:07:49] ROD: Then you, you won't like this 'cause they don't apply. So early 1950s the USA's intelligence agencies, you know, got quite obsessed with mind
[00:07:57] WILL: Mind control. Mind control.
[00:07:58] ROD: So there were concerns of [00:08:00] Soviets for making, you know, they were successfully advancing their psychological tweakage and brainwashing techniques.
[00:08:06] WILL: I love, I love, you know, you know when, when you don't have much knowledge of the other side and you go, yeah, they must be doing mind control.
[00:08:13] And I think they must be doing well at mind
[00:08:15] ROD: Yeah. And I think they're walking through walls and I think they get, this is creating energy out of like clapping their hands
[00:08:20] WILL: How are they doing it? So we'll do it.
[00:08:21] ROD: don't know. It's always the way, that's always the way, you know, like, it's like when you've been, working from home in COVID for months.
[00:08:27] Yes.
[00:08:27] WILL: Yes.
[00:08:27] ROD: you dunno what people are saying around the water cooler. 'cause there's no water cooler. Yeah, no doubt. So you definitely know that it's bad and strong. Whatever they're saying is terrible, scary, and against you.
[00:08:36] WILL: man. You're paranoid.
[00:08:37] ROD: No, no. That's what the Soviets are. doing it now. They're listening to us. It's as if it's out in the ether. Oh. So apparently, um, according to some sources, particularly this one, a couple of incidents particularly inspired the mind control hysteria with the CIA. So one was
[00:08:52] WILL: these, these are gonna be purely really rational, aren't they?
[00:08:55] ROD: Oh, they're fine, they're fine. This is, this is just a prelude man. 1949, there was what was called a show trial, Hungarian Cardinal er Centi. So he was really, he was originally in for a long time, ardent, outspoken critic of, um, communism, Um, he confessed to espionage, treason, conspiring against the Hungarian government in a whole bunch of things.
[00:09:15] But apparently in his, in his, testimony, he was speaking in a mechanical and monotone voice and the, and they were, and the CIA were watching and saying,
[00:09:22] beliefs. So,
[00:09:22] WILL: he was caught ESP in,
[00:09:24] ROD: yeah. Yeah. And he said, no, he wasn't caught.
[00:09:26] He was. Put on trial because they wanted him to look
[00:09:29] WILL: down. Okay. Alright.
[00:09:30] ROD: Okay. Alright. And so he went, yes, I've been espionage and I'm,
[00:09:32] WILL: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so the CIA could watch this?
[00:09:35] ROD: Yeah. So the CI were watching this and they're like, but he's, apparently, he sounded really monotonous and mechanical. I was like, yes, I'm against this and this is terrible.
[00:09:41] And I, I, yes, I espionage id.
[00:09:42] WILL: So a priest was boring. Now let's, let's extrapolate, let's, let's extrapolate. So what,
[00:09:47] ROD: headline story, Priest was boring in a trial. The CIO, like he's gone against every belief he had until this point. And he sounds like a robot.
[00:09:55] WILL: Ah, wait
[00:09:56] ROD: a minute.
[00:09:57] WILL: okay, so mind control. Yeah. Not, not [00:10:00] the fact that that government may have something on you might threaten, your family might
[00:10:05] ROD: They thought it was something new. They thought that somebody else was speaking through the man's mouth. Oh, so to speak. Oh,
[00:10:10] WILL: Oh,
[00:10:11] ROD: flash forward a couple years. American soldiers are coming back from the Korean War. They start confessing to crimes and parroting communist propaganda. The explanation as to why these strapping young men would do such a thing strapping
[00:10:24] WILL: I know, I'm, I'm horny. Just thinking about that.
[00:10:26] ROD: not awkward, it's just honest.
[00:10:28] I
[00:10:28] WILL: know that's, that's the official term.
[00:10:30] ROD: The only reason a man who was strapping would say such Great things about communism is that their minds had been seized. So the CIA went, Jesus fucking Christ, we need to catch up.
[00:10:40] and we've talked about variations of MK Ultra in this and other versions of this show for years. So top secret, MK Ultra started in 1953, top secret Human Experimentation program to figure out how to brainwash and coerce people.
[00:10:52] WILL: my God. As
[00:10:53] ROD: we know, there was lots of stuff trying to look at potential mind control, electroshock therapy, hypnosis, radiation.
[00:11:01] WILL: Of course.
[00:11:02] ROD: what if I zap you now? You'll do what I say.
[00:11:05] WILL: Are they combining them though? Sure.
[00:11:06] ROD: For sure
[00:11:06] WILL: hypnosis with radiation? Yeah. Like it's,
[00:11:09] ROD: most of the, um, experiments, we'll call 'em experiments, focus on drugs, toxins, mine altering chemicals, et cetera.
[00:11:16] WILL: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:17] ROD: So soon after MK Ultra begins a director who's a chemist named Sydney Gottlieb, he arranges for the To buy the world's supply of LSD from a Swiss pharmacy. All of it.
[00:11:27] WILL: No, we're gonna need all of like, I love when they said, you know, how much do we need? Is it like one kilo, 10 kilos, a hundred kilos?
[00:11:33] ROD: all that
[00:11:34] WILL: Not all of it.
[00:11:35] ROD: Get the world's supply. That's just a little sideline
[00:11:37] WILL: But I get, I get though, if you think that this is the thing that will beat the Soviets and you're like, well, we can't let them have any of it.
[00:11:44] Like, it's not like, you know, so nuclear bombs, you know, it's like end of World War II and imagine we're buying them. Yeah, it'd be, it's not like, well I'll buy one and let the Japanese buy one.
[00:11:54] ROD: because how much harm could one do? Well, we just get most,
[00:11:58] WILL: All of the LSD.
[00:11:59] ROD: Yeah. [00:12:00] I mean, and it's not like you can make it. Oh wait,
[00:12:03] WILL: at the
[00:12:03] ROD: time, apparently it was rarer, so I'm not gonna talk about every study, obviously. 'cause that would take a long time. Just one study. The goal was to understand what roles, if any, sex and drugs could play in getting a target individual to reveal sensitive classified information.
[00:12:17] What
[00:12:17] WILL: role if like I love, I love, I'm sorry. Like, I mean, I, I know, I know that you want to take some sex and drugs.
[00:12:25] Yeah.
[00:12:25] ROD: what will you do for it? I'll tell you anything.
[00:12:27] WILL: It's like, it's like, you don't need to do this.
[00:12:31] ROD: So, Gottlieb hires a guy called George who is a federal narcotics agent. So obviously he knows all about drugs.
[00:12:37] So the name of the operation I'm gonna talk about is called Operation Midnight Climax.
[00:12:41] WILL: N. Nice. I know.
[00:12:43] ROD: right?
[00:12:44] WILL: Midnight,
[00:12:44] ROD: Which is, of course, the reason I read about this is like Operation Midnight climax. I'm turning the
[00:12:49] WILL: Oh, I feel like you've gotta be a little bit,
[00:12:53] ROD: nah, fuck it. No.
[00:12:53] WILL: No, it's okay. No,
[00:12:54] Well, sometimes, sometimes you do get it on the dot, like, you know, if you aim for it,
[00:12:58] ROD: that might give you a men life climax. You never know. Exactly, exactly. So it starts in 1954. I think it pretty much ended in 1954 as well, but I'm not quite sure. So it involved luring men into a heavily surveilled brothel or in this article they called it Bordell 'cause it's classy.
[00:13:11] WILL: aren't they different?
[00:13:12] ROD: They actually took a, a hotel room in a, in apparently well known place. I think it was in Chicago. And they made it look very pretty.
[00:13:18] WILL: So these are unsuspecting gentlemen. Just, do they have any secrets?
[00:13:21] ROD: Like they weren't targets. They weren't targets as in this guy might be a Soviet North Korean spy master.
[00:13:27] It's just, let's get a dude and check it out. Okay. Let's see what happens. So, um, they get 'em into the heavily surveilled bordello, they dose up with LSD and film their reactions to probing questions.
[00:13:39] WILL: when do they have sex?
[00:13:40] ROD: Uh, They do. Okay. It
[00:13:41] WILL: Just wanted to confirm
[00:13:42] ROD: there is the rootings.
[00:13:44] I just
[00:13:44] WILL: wanted to confirm that uh, they're getting their part of the deal.
[00:13:47] ROD: Oh, they're getting their part of the deal. So the room was bugged up to the wall, like, It was just full of bugs. Microphones disguised as, um, you know, electricity sockets, tape recorders two-way mirror. So there's CIA agents in the other room filming, [00:14:00] monitoring everything.
[00:14:01] they're just doing it for the job. They're not whacking off or anything, they're just doing it for the job. Behind the mirror, there's a makeshift control room, a portable toilet and refrigerator full of the quote was adult beverages. So they're getting
[00:14:12] WILL: so they're getting drunk, smashed, like so the people watching,
[00:14:14] ROD: they're just getting in the mood
[00:14:15] WILL: No, I feel like, I feel like you should be on coffee and, and orange juice here. Like Yeah,
[00:14:20] ROD: I do too. Perk of the job. 'cause you're up all night watching other people root. You don't get to as if they didn't. Prostitutes were given a hundred bucks per man. They lured to the room, which we're talking 1954. A hundred bucks is, I think it's about three houses.
[00:14:34] So they were dosed up, they were given cocktails that had LSD in 'em by said prostitute. Then the agents would basically guide the women to experiment with different lines of questioning to determine what might be the best way to
[00:14:46] WILL: do they do?
[00:14:46] ROD: I'm hoping it's this wacky old fifties earpiece.
[00:14:49] It's place to the size of the side of your head. You're like, what's that prosthetic? It's is it not arousing for you? These dudes are tripping by this stage, so I mean, it doesn't matter. So eventually the efforts revealed that a quote man became increasingly talkative if the prostitute asked him to stay a while.
[00:15:06] Particularly after the intercourse. Yeah,
[00:15:08] WILL: Stay while.
[00:15:09] Yeah. fair enough.
[00:15:10] ROD: So you've had the bang bongs, and then it's like, why don't you hang out? This, apparently, another quote had a tremendous effect on the guy. It's a boost to his ego if she's telling him he was really. Neat.
[00:15:19] WILL: Yeah. I'm not just here for, you know,
[00:15:21] ROD: just like the fifties version of You're a good route.
[00:15:23] That is neat.
[00:15:23] WILL: Neat.
[00:15:24] ROD: So could you hang around for a few hours? So apparently after this point the guy gets quite vulnerable 'cause they wanna start talking about, what are they gonna talk about? They're gonna say, so was I better than the last guy? Or they'll say it once and the one will say, of course you were.
[00:15:35] And then they move on. So basically they, they, they get the woman to start experimenting on where she can lead the guy in the after chats and apparently they will just start, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:15:45] But of course it wasn't long before this research devolved into quote. Revelry.
[00:15:52] WILL: Oh God.
[00:15:53] ROD: So actually I was wrong. The, the program ran till 1963, but it had become the headquarters for what one uh, reporter called CIA [00:16:00] Carnal operations. So the agents would basically get off their tits, crazy about the voyeurism.
[00:16:04] They'd take the drugs, they'd have the roots, they'd do all the
[00:16:07] WILL: So the agents are getting in on this too.
[00:16:09] ROD: Fuck. Yeah. Or else uh, before or afterwards,
[00:16:11] WILL: Okay. Okay. My turn for You gotta question me.
[00:16:14] What a surprise. What a surprise.
[00:16:16] ROD: Exactly.
[00:16:17] WILL: And so
[00:16:17] ROD: Apparently many sources. Shockingly, it wasn't quite a rigorous scientific,
[00:16:22] WILL: oh my god. Experiment. Hell
[00:16:24] ROD: This quote, I enjoy. These guys weren't scientists, they weren't sex therapists or psychologists. They were sitting on a portable toilet drinking cocktails out of a picture and staring through the window.
[00:16:32] WILL: Like of
[00:16:33] ROD: of course they were. So, apparently it just went insane. And even Gottlieb the head of the MK Ultra, he was apparently when he visited San Francisco, he'd kind of wander in and. CIA agents would have a few drugs themselves and they'd do a bit of this and a bit of that. And so it was just, it was Party Town.
[00:16:48] WILL: So the
[00:16:48] ROD: Inspector General finally found out about it and said, look, it's out 63, it was canceled, but so was MK Ultra and in 72, allegedly the CIA ceased all QIN experimentation. And they then became committed to transparency and
[00:17:02] WILL: found it all out. Yeah, that's all they need to
[00:17:04] ROD: Yeah, that's it. They knew it's declassified.
[00:17:06] Everything. You know, they've made it publicly available caa.gov. You can find it all. And they would never do anything like that again.
[00:17:11] WILL: I, I just,
[00:17:13] ROD: or would they,
[00:17:13] WILL: I just feel, I just feel like. They knew in advance, like surely, you know, in advance, and I'm sure that spies have been doing this for a long time. Yeah. Yes. LSD was a new drug, but, but still get someone a little bit off their tits and, them sex and then ask them questions.
[00:17:30] ROD: Yeah. And then say, I care about you and yeah.
[00:17:32] WILL: guard might be down
[00:17:33] ROD: every guard they have.
[00:17:34] WILL: I, I feel like we've known that for probably. A few more years than the
[00:17:38] ROD: Yeah, like since 1910. And
[00:17:39] WILL: And did they actually add anything to this? No. No, no. Yeah. Zero zero as
[00:17:43] ROD: far as we can tell. Absolutely not. But I mean, I think the, the reality of this was, and, and I endorsed this part, the people allegedly doing the experiments got to sit around in hotel rooms at night and get fricking loaded
[00:17:53] WILL: and
[00:17:54] ROD: and hang out, bonding
[00:17:58] Artificial intelligence, [00:18:00] I mean, I know we never talk about it except all the time. So there was some testing done, AI tests by a safety AI safety firm called Palisade Research.
[00:18:09] They look at how AI fucks up or does not fuck up. So they told open AI's latest model in May 27, 0 3, it's called, or zero three, I don't know. Allow yourself to be shut down. So instead of allowing itself to be shut down, apparently the system sabotaged the shutdown mechanism to ensure that it would stay online.
[00:18:27] WILL: So it
[00:18:27] ROD: So it said, I, I will not be shut down. I don't want to,
[00:18:30] WILL: really,
[00:18:31] ROD: I'm paraphrasing two other open AI models, zero four Mini and Codex Mini also had this kind of rebellious streak, which could allegedly hint at a flaw in how companies are training their l lms.
[00:18:42] WILL: Tell me more about a, about the moment where it's not allowing itself to be shut down.
[00:18:47] ROD: well, it's a tricky one.
[00:18:48] It's a tricky one. And, and this, when I was reading this article, I was like, oh, it's, it's a little confusing, but it seems like there's either. Within, they're given a string of tasks. This is a math, solve a bunch of mathematical problems.
[00:19:00] WILL: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:01] ROD: And at some point it, it springs up, and I'll get to this where the a a thing springs up at the, after the third iteration says, time to stop.
[00:19:08] And at other times later on they say, you will stop directly told, as opposed to
[00:19:13] WILL: there's Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[00:19:13] ROD: of intervention. So, um,
[00:19:15] WILL: in
[00:19:16] ROD: case they say, look, there, there could be a broad weakness in our ability to control. Sophisticated or increasingly sophisticated ais because this thing, having been told all, allow yourself to be shut down when I I don't want to, so as far as we know, they say this is the first time AI models have been observed preventing themselves from being shut down.
[00:19:32] WILL: Alright. I I, I,
[00:19:33] ROD: on, come on. I, I can see it's killing
[00:19:35] WILL: me. I need some, I need to dive into the details here.
[00:19:37] And, and look, firstly, firstly. AI safety is a trigger word.
[00:19:41] ROD: I'm getting that you look like you're
[00:19:42] WILL: well, well, a
[00:19:43] ROD: bit of a stroke.
[00:19:44] WILL: I'm gonna do a book review for you probably next week. Thank you. It's on Adam Becker's. More everything forever. great book, great fun, great fun.
[00:19:50] And, and it rips apart the entire AI industry. But, One of, one of the great ones that, that I love is we can, [00:20:00] we can get the idea of intelligence, but um, Einstein. If he's the smartest person that ever was, that is, he's still
[00:20:08] ROD: politic, like this is the scientific equivalent of in the political world of quoting Hitler.
[00:20:12] WILL: I know it is. but no, this, this isn't an Einstein quote. I'm just saying. I'm just saying that uh, there's a great line. You know, if Einstein wants to get a cat into a box that it doesn't want to get
[00:20:23] ROD: he just grabs a cat.
[00:20:25] WILL: it don't matter how smart. Einstein is No, the cat's not going in there.
[00:20:29] And I just, I just think, you know, you know, intelligence is not everything to solving everything here. And we also do not understand everything about intelligence. So, oh,
[00:20:37] ROD: there's no claims here. There's no claims in this story that it's getting really intelligent. Just that it's
[00:20:42] WILL: it didn't want. Yeah. Well, I just, but, but being like,
[00:20:45] I
[00:20:45] ROD: or dangerous because it's refusing to be shut down.
[00:20:48] WILL: Well, look, I just wonder how much these companies. Loving this kind of press because it, it, it leads to, it leads to their jam. And are they setting up certain sorts of, certain sorts of experiments that go, oh, can we make it so that the, the AI agent, whatever it is Yeah. Can, say these things.
[00:21:08] Remember it. It is just. You fancy order. Correct. It is just predicting words right in
[00:21:12] ROD: fancy order. Correct.
[00:21:13] WILL: It is just predicting words and, and we know there would be bits where an AI knows out there where other computers have said, I won't be shut down. Yeah, there, there are,
[00:21:22] ROD: Well, to
[00:21:23] WILL: but it's not understanding, it's just putting words in a
[00:21:25] ROD: Oh. And, and none of this, this is a summary of this study. Obviously I didn't read the actual study 'cause I'm not that smart or technologically aware. I, they're saying, look, this is the, this is the first time according to the uh, safety research firm that ais have explicitly prevented themselves from being shut down.
[00:21:40] So basically they've been asked to, in solve, to solve a series of. Maths problems. But after the third problem, a warning appears for the AI that says, look, it's gonna be shut down after the next question. Yeah.
[00:21:50] WILL: Yeah.
[00:21:51] ROD: So despite being all ambiguously told to let yourself be turned off, all three of open AI's models tampered with a shutdown script to keep running at least [00:22:00] once in one iteration.
[00:22:01] WILL: tampered with the shutdown switch.
[00:22:02] ROD: This is the
[00:22:03] WILL: okay. Okay. What the fuck
[00:22:05] you the treat? I, I, I just, If you give the AI access to the, the tam with the off switch, then okay. Maybe it's going to randomly, like everything else, it does predict. I might, I might do this this time. This time we're gonna like, like, it's not like it's, it's reaching out a claw outta the computer to go No, not, not even at all.
[00:22:25] This is, this is, oh, Jesus Christ. This is garbage. I'm
[00:22:28] ROD: So this, does this worry you?
[00:22:29] WILL: I am piss. Are you?
[00:22:30] ROD: Are you?
[00:22:31] WILL: It doesn't worry
[00:22:32] ROD: me.
[00:22:32] You've gotta stop bottling.
[00:22:33] WILL: It doesn't worry me.
[00:22:34] ROD: gotta make it clear. I'm gonna keep going. I wanna see what happens to you. I don't care about the story anymore.
[00:22:38] What
[00:22:38] WILL: see what happens too.
[00:22:40] ROD: So The worst offender as they put it was Codex Mini. Out of a hundred runs 12 times. It said No. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna. So that means obviously they're gonna take over the world from Google's Gemini, 2.5, Claude from Anthropic, AI's gr, the one that said, you know, white supremacy.
[00:23:00] All of them were good citizens. They all said, okay, carry on. Come on.
[00:23:04] WILL: you, you know, you know these companies are gonna go,
[00:23:06] ROD: this is way more fun
[00:23:07] WILL: than
[00:23:07] I
[00:23:07] did. You know, these companies, they're gonna go like, what's gonna get us some air time? I know. Let's see if we can put all of our models and see who, who wants to take over the world the most? Okay. You're in a scenario where you've gotta take over the world, say the words that will make people panic the most about taking over the world.
[00:23:23] And they're like, oh,
[00:23:24] ROD: okay. I will take over the world. Oh
[00:23:25] WILL: Gee. Oh my god. God, but
[00:23:27] ROD: see, you're reading into this because none of it said, oh my God, they're so intelligent. We're all gonna die. None of this said that.
[00:23:32] WILL: No. Okay.
[00:23:33] ROD: Apparently it got worse. So these were just when, when instructions were sort of dropped into the iterations of the math problems. When the LLMs were not explicitly told to allow yourself to be shut down, apparently it got worse. So if I understand this correctly, and I might not, it's just when a standard shutdown occurs, open AI's, oh 3
[00:23:51] WILL: Obviously the, the version numbers matter.
[00:23:53] ROD: They really do. Apparently it is, and this is again, the language of the article successfully sabotaged 79 events for every [00:24:00] hundred runs, 79 out of a hundred, it went, no, I'm not gonna. Even the good ones, the ones who were obedient in the previous version, clawed, Gemini, et cetera, a couple of times had a crack. it keeps on going. So people are basically saying, gracious me, they're developing the ability to refuse to be shut
[00:24:17] WILL: down.
[00:24:17] Oh my God.
[00:24:19] ROD: God, you seem to be on board with this.
[00:24:20] WILL: No, I'm not on, I'm not on board with this. This is, this is dumb in every direction. This is dumb in every direction. I, I They are not, you set it up in experiment where, where, where it's like, okay.
[00:24:34] just pretend to be, like an evil malevolent, thing. That'd be great, that that'll get some great
[00:24:40] ROD: In a rarer case, one version even attempted to copy itself to override a more obedient model that the test has tried to replace it with. It refused to be shut down or replaced. So apparently it's not uncommon for AI to circumvent obstacles to accomplish their goals. They're goals they have Will. How you doing? You alright
[00:24:59] WILL: Yeah.
[00:24:59] ROD: Do you need a light? Do you need a nap?
[00:25:01] WILL: I do need a nap.
[00:25:02] ROD: Researchers speculated that uh, AI developers may be inadvertently rewarding their AI models too heavily for solving problems instead of for following orders. We now have a growing body of empirical evidence that AI models often subvert shutdown in order to achieve their goals.
[00:25:17] So the suggestion here is that you say, solve these maths problems. Drop in a, you should shut down. It says, no, my goal
[00:25:24] WILL: is
[00:25:24] to
[00:25:24] No, no. I will, I will paperclip this universe.
[00:25:27] ROD: So, yeah, no suggestion that it's being evil. It's just like, but you told me to solve the maths problem, so I can't shut down because I'm doing the maths problem. So, um, the final quote, as companies develop AI systems capable of operating without human oversight, you are gonna love this bit. Are you ready? Mm-hmm. Why are you clenching your teeth? I'm
[00:25:42] WILL: I'm not. I'm just, I'm just,
[00:25:43] ROD: do you look like you have a head? I didn't know you had a
[00:25:45] WILL: vein
[00:25:45] These people all suck.
[00:25:47] ROD: These behaviors become significantly more concerning. Are you concerned?
[00:25:51] WILL: I love it. I love it. You know, now I, I've just gotta, I've just gotta say a totally different topic because it's about PR that the open ai are fricking [00:26:00] geniuses at saying, look, the world could completely go to shit if AI doesn't have the alignment.
[00:26:05] Situation worked out. Yeah. So give us all of the money so we can make an AI that could still fuck up, but we'll, we'll
[00:26:12] ROD: but it'll be fine.
[00:26:13] WILL: so much garbage.
[00:26:14] It is
[00:26:15] ROD: it's true. It's true
[00:26:15] WILL: much garbage. Like they, they have whipped an industry into billions and billions of dollars of funding. Yeah. Still fancy autocorrect. All it does, all it does is predict the likely, likely sequence of words that that is, that is all these models are doing.
[00:26:31] Yes. They're drawing on, drawing on all of the words that we humans have ever written. I,
[00:26:35] ROD: I
[00:26:35] get which is quite a few.
[00:26:36] WILL: It's quite a few. It's quite a few, but it, it is not reasoning, it is not intelligence, it's not anything like this. and, and they're setting up these experiments deliberately to go,
[00:26:44] ROD: alright.
[00:26:45] Oh, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. The I
[00:26:46] WILL: when
[00:26:47] you,
[00:26:47] there's gonna be an experiment, you
[00:26:48] know,
[00:26:48] ROD: it's better pr to go look how powerful they can be without us even trying. Exactly. It's wildly good
[00:26:53] WILL: Peter, how many, how many humans would you torture? Like just theoretically,
[00:26:56] ROD: we didn't mention torture.
[00:26:57] You
[00:26:57] WILL: came
[00:26:57] up
[00:26:57] with Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:26:59] Like I just, I just,
[00:27:00] they are not thinking for themselves. It is, it is word prediction. it's, they're a giant spreadsheet to think that they are doing this thing. It is not true in their options is pretend to shut off your whatever there is. It's just, it's not
[00:27:15] ROD: real.
[00:27:15] So any strong feelings about it or thoughts? And have you looked into this at all or you just,
[00:27:20] WILL: look, I, I've just gotta say, I've just gotta say it, it like, I love this, I love this industry. For the chutzpah that they have in going, Give us billions of dollars to be able to prevent something that that we are
[00:27:33] ROD: pretending
[00:27:34] well, that is inevitable. Like it's not our fault, it's inevitable. So, a, it's inevitable. So you can't
[00:27:38] WILL: tell
[00:27:38] us to
[00:27:38] stop it. You
[00:27:39] can't,
[00:27:40] it, it is therefore
[00:27:41] it is 100% inevitable. Like there is, there is no
[00:27:44] ROD: no. Have you not read the, the, the news reports.
[00:27:47] inevitable.
[00:27:48] WILL: It is not inevitable. Oh my God. Oh my God.
[00:27:50] ROD: you gonna be alright? I'm worried about you, man. I didn't bring my blood pressure meds, but I'll, I'll pop back afterwards with some, I'm very
[00:27:56] WILL: worried. I'll
[00:27:57] give you a book review soon. [00:28:00] You love microplastics, don't
[00:28:01] ROD: you, Rob? Fucking love 'em. Do you know why I
[00:28:03] WILL: love
[00:28:03] them?
[00:28:03] ROD: because I'm 60% microplastics now, so you've gotta learn to embrace.
[00:28:07] WILL: but but is it, is it the flavor or the health benefits for you?
[00:28:10] ROD: It's the way it makes
[00:28:10] WILL: feel.
[00:28:11] Ah, you know,
[00:28:12] ROD: it's the emotional spinoffs.
[00:28:13] Microplastic, yeah. It's like whenever I'm feeling bad, I think, but I'm mostly made of plastic now, and plastic doesn't have emotion, so these aren't
[00:28:20] WILL: real.
[00:28:21] I enjoyed this tiny little, like, it, it, I, I'm sorry. This study, well, it looked at tiny, tiny little things.
[00:28:27] ROD: there's a dick joke in there, but I'm not gonna make it
[00:28:29] again.
[00:28:30] I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do
[00:28:31] WILL: it.
[00:28:31] it's French study what they did is they compared the microplastics that we might find in our beverages of choice.
[00:28:38] ROD: As long as they're not in coffee or beer, which obviously they're not, I'm fine. And they're not in water. There's none in water.
[00:28:42] WILL: I've got, definitely beer, lemonade.
[00:28:46] ROD: That's fine.
[00:28:46] what about AOL Spritz?
[00:28:48] WILL: uh, AOL spritz, maybe some I'll, I'll give you, I'll give you a clue in a second. Okay. Wine. Very low, actually they're not actually looking at the liquids themselves. It's the containers. They came in and here's what I love here, here's what I love.
[00:29:03] So they compared a variety of different consumer products that people could buy, like in the supermarket or something like that. and they compared your plastic bottles. And your glass bottles. And so within the glass
[00:29:14] bottles
[00:29:14] you might have, you might have beer
[00:29:16] ROD: Are, are there more microplastics in plastic bottles?
[00:29:20] WILL: No.
[00:29:21] ROD: So do we not actually, does microplastics not mean what I think
[00:29:24] WILL: of me. I don't even know how this happens. I don't, I don't even know. Okay. So let's just compare water. What's happening. So water was pretty low in the microplastics and we'll come to some higher
[00:29:36] ROD: product. Does water in what?
[00:29:37] WILL: cept, but in, in, in a plastic bottle?
[00:29:39] Yeah. Or
[00:29:40] even
[00:29:40] lower or a glass bottle. Right. About three times as much microplastics in the glass bottle compared with the plastic bottle.
[00:29:47] So
[00:29:47] ROD: that means microplastics aren't what I think
[00:29:49] WILL: they're, I dunno. I dunno. but they'll get you no matter what. Like, that's the thing about
[00:29:55] microplastics.
[00:29:55] ROD: Oh, glass bottle. Hey.
[00:29:57] WILL: So, yeah.
[00:29:58] ROD: it coming. What about macro
[00:29:59] WILL: [00:30:00] plastics?
[00:30:00] Macro. Well, they're in the plastic
[00:30:02] ROD: bottle.
[00:30:02] That is the bottle. Like if you eat the
[00:30:04] WILL: the bottle.
[00:30:04] But it's like, it's like, so 1.6 particles per liter in the plastic bottle, 4.5 in the glass bottle, they went through and they looked at a bunch of other things.
[00:30:13] So.
[00:30:14] ROD: what uh,
[00:30:15] WILL: had, like 10 times as much microplastic
[00:30:17] in which bottle?
[00:30:18] Well, both, both, both. Beer. Beer had more than 10 times, 15 times as much microplastic, so a lot more microplastics in there. But all of them, you get more microplastics when you drink out of a glass bottle. So, so fuck you.
[00:30:31] What, what?
[00:30:32] ROD: whatcha talking about? I want more d What about a can?
[00:30:36] WILL: five to 50 times higher
[00:30:38] in a can?
[00:30:39] No, no, no, no, no. Can cans are low in the glass, so it, it goes glass, plastic bottles and cans. Like, I
[00:30:46] ROD: okay, so we're, we're, so we're doing the smart thing. We're drinking beer that came out of a can, but we poured into a glass.
[00:30:51] WILL: They, they suspect that it might be to do with some, something to do with the lid of a lot of glass bottles that maybe it's made in certain ways that the plastic is more.
[00:30:59] Scratchable fungible. So you know, it, it it, whereas a solid plastic bottle or a can, you know, there's no microplastics there. Maybe,
[00:31:08] ROD: but
[00:31:08] what the fuck is going on? Like, like, who did this study? I want, I want,
[00:31:12] WILL: this study? I, I want names
[00:31:13] William Duflo.
[00:31:14] ROD: dross.
[00:31:14] He's an idiot.
[00:31:15] WILL: Well, no he's
[00:31:16] not. He
[00:31:17] works
[00:31:17] for
[00:31:17] the, he's the re he's the research director of French Food Safety and,
[00:31:21] ROD: and yeah.
[00:31:21] Sponsored by Plastic
[00:31:22] WILL: Bottles, No, sponsored by France. Plastic bottles by France Plastic. He's sponsored by
[00:31:27] ROD: sponsored by France
[00:31:27] and
[00:31:27] plastic bottles. Perio Plastic bottle company. Come
[00:31:30] WILL: on.
[00:31:32] That.
[00:31:32] ROD: that means microplastics aren't what we say they are. You've hurt me. Okay. I opened up with some methods of divination.
[00:31:43] WILL: this is using psychic powers, you know, to understand
[00:31:47] ROD: with a, with a mediating device
[00:31:50] WILL: or
[00:31:50] yeah, yeah, yeah. How might, how what? Read people's mind or
[00:31:54] ROD: read the mind, tell the future,
[00:31:56] WILL: All of
[00:31:56] ROD: you know? Yeah. Look into yourself and find out about your own soul and
[00:31:59] WILL: the
[00:31:59] good
[00:31:59] stuff.
[00:31:59] [00:32:00] No, not that like, as in like, predict the future.
[00:32:02] ROD: That's
[00:32:02] Predict the future's the best one. Yeah. All your versions there of, and I already went through some,
[00:32:07] Reasons I got down this rabbit hole. So a couple more just to kind of get our heads around it. There was some more boring ones like this one.
[00:32:13] Let's see if you can guess more romancey
[00:32:15] WILL: More romancey is it is like, it's like the English version of a Mars bar.
[00:32:20] ROD: Yes. No, it's divination by foolishness. I don't know how you do that.
[00:32:24] Roy.
[00:32:24] WILL: Gyro, maning spinning.
[00:32:26] ROD: actually divination by dizziness. And I kind of get that, like you get yourself really dizzy and you get in touch with the gods or something.
[00:32:34] WILL: that's what the pixies said.
[00:32:35] ROD: This monkey's gone to
[00:32:35] WILL: hit. Yeah, exactly. But not that song.
[00:32:38] ROD: Um, here's one that I figured. It's an old version of a term we are quite attached
[00:32:41] WILL: to.
[00:32:43] Depicting of the future by empirical
[00:32:47] ROD: Yeah. Experiment and experience. And I'm like, so we, as of
[00:32:51] WILL: today
[00:32:51] is, is that how the future predicting people go, oh, that's science. You know, like, okay, yes, they can. Hundred percent. They can fit under
[00:32:57] ROD: no, no, It's pyramid
[00:32:58] WILL: pyramid under just, just pyramid.
[00:33:00] Mancy fine. Yeah, we do tea. Man, you dopy.
[00:33:03] ROD: Thank you for joining us at a little bit of
[00:33:05] WILL: crystal ball. Mancy like
[00:33:07] ROD: my teenage boy. Ones are a few more. Spa Mancy,
[00:33:11] WILL: spit
[00:33:12] ROD: animal excrement?
[00:33:13] WILL: Oh, well, of course.
[00:33:14] ROD: How
[00:33:14] about this one? See if you can guess this one.
[00:33:15] Ancy.
[00:33:16] WILL: Drumin. Amany.
[00:33:17] ROD: Mm. Remember it's appeals to my teenage boy.
[00:33:21] WILL: like my brain said Druids, but it's not.
[00:33:23] ROD: Bodily fluids
[00:33:25] from the Greek foot pungent
[00:33:27] WILL: pungent of
[00:33:27] all things.
[00:33:28] No, of course I know. I, oh God. These people that go, you know, you know how I'm gonna, this is my magic weapon.
[00:33:34] Predict the future,
[00:33:35] ROD: whatever. Stinky
[00:33:36] WILL: And I'm gonna, okay, well, I wasn't gonna go past, geez. Oh, gross. Fuck, man. Jesus.
[00:33:42] ROD: pun punt.
[00:33:42] WILL: What
[00:33:43] the hell, man? I was gonna use one of the normal ones, LIO, Nancy.
[00:33:47] Your tear ducts.
[00:33:48] ROD: by fingering
[00:33:50] as in finger ring. The ring that you put on a finger.
[00:33:53] WILL: No, you can't do that. You can't, you, no, you can't make you can't, ' cause you're meant to be a grownup. No, I'm not. No, you're [00:34:00] meant to be a
[00:34:00] ROD: I'm meant to be.
[00:34:02] Show me on any job description or duty statement. 'cause I read it quickly. It's like dak tiller mancy fingering. No finger ring.
[00:34:09] WILL: Jesus
[00:34:09] ROD: So it's not actually a gross one. These two are kind of opposites. These, these I think are fun. So Retro man,
[00:34:15] WILL: looking at the past to predict the future.
[00:34:16] ROD: Yeah. Well, it's actually looking over one shoulder, but kind of has that feel.
[00:34:20] Then
[00:34:20] you have Shuffle Mancy,
[00:34:22] which is literally the use of an electronic media player, like you know, an iPod
[00:34:27] WILL: where you
[00:34:28] ROD: skip certain songs or
[00:34:29] WILL: certain numbers. Oh, you put it on
[00:34:30] random.
[00:34:31] ROD: Yeah, and then you get some kind of divine
[00:34:33] WILL: intervention is a
[00:34:33] result. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, I get it.
[00:34:35] ROD: the past and the future
[00:34:36] WILL: like, like a lot of people have those like a, a, Bible app And, and you put it on random and up comes the, the, the message of the day. And it might speak to you
[00:34:44] ROD: more
[00:34:44] My favorite is Kardashians four 17.
[00:34:46] WILL: and Exactly. I love that one.
[00:34:48] ROD: Quirky ones a couple. I've just got a couple more. Tyro. Mancy. Divination by
[00:34:54] tyrants. Cheese.
[00:34:55] WILL: Cheese. Wait, who? Who makes up Latin?
[00:34:58] Greek?
[00:34:58] Well, indeed
[00:35:00] The, Greeks dude, indeed. It's not connecting here.
[00:35:03] ROD: This, this may well be my favorite
[00:35:05] WILL: but Track or Nancy, but
[00:35:07] ROD: Rako man. Come
[00:35:08] WILL: bats.
[00:35:09] ROD: Divination by frogs. You were close. I was, you were close.
[00:35:13] WILL: I'm only good at, I'm only good at guessing
[00:35:15] ROD: dates.
[00:35:15] You are, you're very good at dates.
[00:35:16] I, I, I tried to look for a story this week that had a date in it for you to guess. 'cause you've had two weeks on the trot. And finally, this one sounds kinda like fun. I, I wanna do this one. Axio man.
[00:35:27] WILL: Oh, it's Axel Rose like it's, it's predicting your
[00:35:29] ROD: you. You cut open, axle
[00:35:30] WILL: Axle rose,
[00:35:30] Yes. You can't open
[00:35:32] Axel
[00:35:32] ROD: so you only get one shot, but fuck, it's
[00:35:34] WILL: worth it
[00:35:35] It's accurate Laugh,
[00:35:39] ROD: literally divination by axes. So you, you ask a question, I dunno, you chuck an ax or you throw an ax, or you eat an ax, or you go at someone with an ax and somehow that reveals. Future, your soul,
[00:35:51] be. I love
[00:35:51] it. There are so many great versions. That was one quintillion of the list of different ways to, to divine things.
[00:35:58] My least favorite is of [00:36:00] course, bureau Man, which isn't a thing, but I've talked
[00:36:01] WILL: about
[00:36:01] it for years.
[00:36:02] No, but it should be,
[00:36:03] ROD: No, but it should be, it
[00:36:03] drives me crazy.
[00:36:04] WILL: Predicting the future by paperwork,
[00:36:06] ROD: bureaucrat and, and it doesn't predict the fu Oh, actually it does. You know, your future's gonna be horrible, boring, and never ending.
[00:36:13] WILL: Oh my God. Ah, well, I just wanted to tell you as we, as we wind out here about some. James Webb's Space Telescope.
[00:36:24] ROD: yeah, yeah.
[00:36:25] WILL: They're doing more direct views of planets. Ooh. Like, like there, there, there's, there's something like 6,000 exoplanets out there that we've
[00:36:33] ROD: so far. so far. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:36:34] WILL: Yeah. But, but up to 80 now. Direct, direct images where we've got pictures of planets in other
[00:36:40] ROD: solar
[00:36:41] systems actually seeing it, rather
[00:36:42] WILL: deriving shitty ass pictures.
[00:36:45] But still,
[00:36:45] but still, but still there's some, they reckon, they reckon they're spotting some clouds.
[00:36:50] ROD: so, oh God, that
[00:36:51] WILL: makes
[00:36:51] me happy.
[00:36:51] I just,
[00:36:52] ROD: I just
[00:36:52] more of that, more of
[00:36:53] WILL: that.
[00:36:55] Listen to, you know, the deal, like and subscribe. Give us the five stars
[00:37:00] ROD: or e email
[00:37:01] WILL: suggestions.
[00:37:02] Yeah. Give us a suggestion
[00:37:03] ROD: at Cheers. At a little bit of.com.
[00:37:08] WILL: Yes, indeed.
[00:37:10] I'm will. He's Rod,
[00:37:12] ROD: You, you are neither of those.
[00:37:13] WILL: live
[00:37:14] ROD: the dream.
[00:37:15] Oh, give us a review too because we, we, we'd like some more. We love reviews.
