What’s the deal with redheads? It sounds like the beginning of a Seinfeld bit but in all fairness (pun intended), for a group of people who make up only 2% of the population, our flame-haired ginger guys and gals have attracted much attention throughout history. Some of that attention is due to the obvious: redheads are babes. And we won’t say otherwise because we’ve got a firey redheaded woman on our production team who we don’t want to piss off. We hear they have terrible tempers.
But the fascination with redheads over the centuries hasn’t all been positive. They’ve also received far more hostile attention like being labelled barbarians by the ancient Greeks and Romans. In Ancient Egypt, redheaded men were burnt as human sacrifices at the grave of Osiris (god of the deceased) and their ashes were scattered to the four winds in the name of a bountiful harvest; red hair symbolised the golden wealth of the corn after all, so… makes sense.
Other sources say the redheaded sacrifices had nothing to do with worshipping Osiris, but more because the barbarians were worshipers of Typhon, Osiris's redheaded enemy. Either way, if you were a redheaded man back then, it was better to hide, preferably somewhere cloudy to avoid sunburn. Conveniently, gingers naturally make more vitamin D so less sun exposure would have been fine if they needed to hide out in a cave for a while.
In medieval times, people with green eyes and red hair were considered either witches, werewolves or vampires. There were even alchemical recipes requiring the blood of a redhead to turn copper into gold. Just mix the blood up with the ashes of a basilisk, easy as pie.
Only a century or two ago, European men blessed with red hair were considered wimps but redheaded women, on the other hand, were of a different calibre. 19th-century studies by Cesare Lombroso and Guglielmo Ferrero concluded that red hair was associated with crimes of lust and rapacity (raping and pillaging vibes from their Viking ancestors?). They also concluded that 48 per cent of criminal women were redheads (we can’t vouch for how sciency this study was).
Speaking of studies, the fascination with redheads certainly seems to have infiltrated the modern science world, as more recent studies have shown that redheaded women respond better to opiates, and worse to local anaesthetics. They’re also super efficient with adrenaline, producing more of it and accessing it faster than non-redheads. Perhaps this helped 19th-century women deal with shiv wounds in prison because some research suggests that redheads are better at handling sharp or stabbing pain.
That’s not to say that redheads have a higher pain threshold altogether. Other studies have shown that redheads are more sensitive to certain kinds of pain, particularly heat, but it seems they might be better at resisting pain when it's carried by electric currents.
How or why any of these studies were done in the first place, we do not know.
Scientific or not, redheads do seem to carry the reputation of having a somewhat spicy temperament and the people from Charles University in Prague wanted to know if this translated into the bedroom. The results published in their 2022 paper “Redheaded women are more sexually active than other women, but it is probably due to their suitors” suggest that redheaded women exhibit higher sexual desire, more activity, greater number of sexual partners and an early initiation of sexual life. However, the results also indirectly indicate that more liberated sexual behaviour in redheaded women could be the consequence of more people wanting to have sex with them. Because as we said, they are babes.
Perhaps the higher sexual activity has something to do with the way redheads smell. According to Dr. Augustin Galopin’s 1866 book, “Le parfum de la femme”, redheaded women smell like Ambergris; a solid, waxy material produced in the sperm whale. No yum-yucking people! Nothing turns us on more than a fiery-headed woman with notes of sexy whale chunder.
SOURCES:
Myths about red hair are rooted in fear of difference | Aeon Ideas
World Redhead Day: 16 fun facts about red hair - Indianapolis
Redheaded women are more sexually active than other women, but it is probably due to their suitors
Science Confirms Redheads Are Equipped With Some Weird Genetic Superpowers - GQ Australia
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[00:00:00] Rod: So not long after I was born, I grew this shock of strawberry blonde curls. Like there are baby photos of me, like a cartoon character.
[00:00:10] Will: Shirley Temple.
[00:00:11] Rod: Yeah. only red. Was her hair red?
[00:00:12] Will: I think Shirley Temple was red.
[00:00:14] Rod: She lived in black and white.
[00:00:15] Will: No. Or am I thinking the other one?
[00:00:16] Rod: The other one, not Shirley.
[00:00:17] Will: The other one.
[00:00:18] Rod: Michael Jackson. Mine was red or like it was virtually orange. I've got kind of hazel eyes, which is pretty standard for a redhead,
[00:00:23] Will: I really need some computer generated imagery to blend kid Shirley Temple
[00:00:28] Rod: with me
[00:00:28] Will: we could do that.
[00:00:29] Rod: That'd be adorable. My cheeks would actually be even larger than hers. So I got fairly standard redhead color, hazel eyes, although Brown's a little more popular. Then for some reason, as a toddler, I went blonde. It went straight hair and blonde. It was the surf culture in Canberra. Much later, my noggin became, or my noggin hair became whatever this mousy brownie.
[00:00:49] Will: Yeah. You became generic white guy
[00:00:51] Rod: whatever the fuck it is. So when I grew up enough to grow a beard, it was kind of ginger and Auburn until recently when it turned into what my wife calls Arctic blonde.
[00:00:59] Will: Arctic blonde. So that's what grey is called these days.
[00:01:01] Rod: For me, it's arctic blonde. This isn't grey, man. It's a different kind of blonde. So clearly, I've got a chunk of redhead genes in me. Like, I've never sprouted a dark hair in my life. I've always been this at worst on top of my head.
[00:01:15] So, but I don't exactly look like a full up paid member of the card carrying ginger society. Like it just doesn't look that way. So I've never copped the flack that reds heads have copped over the centuries. And to be clear, some of the flack they've copped in different countries and cultures, not great.
[00:01:30] Not great at all. Being disposed to grow flame colored locks isn't just a pathway to social ostracism and sunburn. It also comes with a raft of other features, magic powers. And some of them are actually pretty good and I'm hoping genetically, even though my hair isn't red anymore, I share them. So in this episode, we ask. What is it about redheads?
[00:02:02] Will: Welcome to the wholesome show
[00:02:03] Rod: the podcast, where two academics knock off early, grab a couple of beers and go down the rabbit hole.
[00:02:09] Will: I'm Will Grant
[00:02:10] Rod: and I'm not, I'm Rod Lamperts. So this topic came up because I saw a cosmopolitan, sorry, Cosmo article called, why do redheads fascinate us?
[00:02:19] Will: And so they do?
[00:02:20] Rod: Well, apparently, and look, my first thought, my actual first reaction was, duh, because
[00:02:24] Will: redheads are babes. It's hot. My first reaction is I'm not sure that I'm fascinated yet. Like I, you know.
[00:02:30] Rod: Give it time. So I quickly discovered though, this is not everyone's first reaction. Like when I first pitched it to you, you know, you were like, is this just going to be a list of you reading out terrible things about a subgroup of people? And it's like, it's a fair question.
[00:02:41] Will: And is it?
[00:02:42] Rod: No. I'm here to mess with you. I'm here to give you some positives, some science based facts and almost no sexism or racism.
[00:02:49] Will: Bigotry can be positive as well. Like saying your class of people are really good at washing up.
[00:02:55] Rod: How did you know that was one of the characteristics
[00:02:57] Will: really good at doing manual labor. That might sound positive, but it's not necessarily positive. I'm just saying that also is a form of racism.
[00:03:04] Rod: Redheads aren't a race.
[00:03:05] Will: Okay. That's why I said bigotry before.
[00:03:06] Rod: This can't be racist. Also a stalwart redhead of our production team when they heard we were going to do this, maybe was a bit worried. Not to mention, you know, ready to kick me really hard in my man parts. It could be, I'll deserve it, but no, I won't.
[00:03:20] So redheads have been singled out around the globe for centuries and sometimes it's been relatively benign and, or just straight up funny and other times not as much benign. Even in recent times, like Wikipedia pages on redheads talk about, you know, a couple of kids beating another kid to death for having red hair, but we don't need to go into that.
[00:03:38] That's exceptional and horrible. And we don't know for sure it was only about red hair. These kids were obviously sociopaths. Anyway so stereotypes, there are old ones. There are current ones. Some of the old ones, ancient Greeks or Romans. You had red hair, you're a barbarian.
[00:03:51] Will: Barbarian. Is that good or bad?
[00:03:52] Rod: Yes. Depends. Do you identify as Greek or Roman or would you like to? Then bad.
[00:03:57] Will: Okay. Okay. So, so they barbarian is not good in their books. I mean, but if they had seen Conan the Barbarian, they might have gone, oh, barbarian is cool.
[00:04:04] Rod: Not a red head.
[00:04:06] Will: See, there you go. It's like one of those not all ducks
[00:04:08] Rod: that movie's a lie. He's no barbarian. He's probably Greek. Ancient Egypt. According to some sources, redhead men were burnt as human sacrifices at the grave of Osiris. Then the ashes were scattered to the four winds because apparently it would help the harvest because, you know, red hair symbolizes golden wealth of the corn.
[00:04:28] Will: Okay. Could they keep it on their head and stay alive?
[00:04:31] Rod: But then this is contested because others say no. It wasn't to worship Osiris. It's actually because these people who are sacrificing were worshipers of Typhon, Osiris's redheaded enemy
[00:04:41] Will: but just to clarify the redheaded guys still get burnt at the stake?
[00:04:45] Rod: Fuck yeah. You're fucked either way.
[00:04:46] Will: So either it's to worship or it's to punish someone else.
[00:04:50] Rod: If you're a redhead, then just hide. Medieval time, so we move forward. We're moving forward in our, let's call it singling out my brethren. To medieval Europeans, red hair probably meant Jewish, which is surprising to me because of all the stereotypes, when someone says this person is Jewish, I don't think, but their hair's not red. Do you?
[00:05:08] Will: No, that is surprising to me. I would have thought they have other countries within Europe that they think of first.
[00:05:14] Rod: Of course, in medieval times, if you had green eyes and red hair, you were either a witch or werewolf or a vampire. Vampires seem to be the most popular.
[00:05:23] Will: Why just go, you're something.
[00:05:24] Rod: I know, like, but again, the popular image of vampire to me, none of them are redheads. They're all like dark and swarthy types with very pale skin. Also medieval times, redheads featured in recipes.
[00:05:34] Will: No
[00:05:35] Rod: why not? What, you've never had redhead stew?
[00:05:38] Will: I like redheads, but I couldn't eat a whole one.
[00:05:40] Rod: The older ones are tougher. Well, there's an alchemical recipes anyway.
[00:05:43] Will: So not a cake.
[00:05:43] Rod: Yeah, no, not a cake. Not a cake. This is one A recipe where if you want to create gold from copper.
[00:05:48] Will: Yes, of course. Throw in one redhead.
[00:05:51] Rod: No blood of a redhead young man.
[00:05:53] Will: Oh, the blood of a redhead. That's better.
[00:05:55] Rod: And the ashes of a basilisk. One is harder to get than the other. Although depending on where you're a redhead, it might be easy to find a basilisk. People were pretty, pretty grumpy with them back then.
[00:06:07] Will: But I like though, if you're an alchemist, I reckon what you do, no matter what recipe you do, 'cause they're not gonna work. You add blood of basilisk. And it's like, well it's your fault you can't find basilisk. Like everything else is fine. The recipe is good.
[00:06:19] Rod: I didn't need unicorn horn. I'm only asking for a few hairs from the mayne of a unicorn you lazy fucks. If you really wanna turn this into that, it's not my fault. I gave you the recipe. I agree. 19th century anthropologist. So moving out, obviously medieval times, basically if you had red hair, they would say, well, you're Vikings. Vikings were probably your ancestors. And it's fair to say many of mine were, so again, I'm sort of
[00:06:39] Will: there is some truth to that.
[00:06:40] Rod: Some truth in it. Okay. What about temperament? Now, again, I gotta admit, I was surprised. I've not really thought much about this at all.
[00:06:47] Will: You've not thought about the prejudice.
[00:06:48] Rod: No, it just hadn't crossed my mind. Imagine that. A middle aged white guy, highly educated in a safe little town. It's like, we don't notice shit. Sorry, you notice. You spend all your time noticing. That's why you always have migraines. He does, when we're walking around people, he'll stop and he'll scream and he'll go injustice.
[00:07:04] Will: I don't know why he says that
[00:07:05] Rod: injustice! And to which I reply
[00:07:07] Will: just get back to the story.
[00:07:07] Rod: So redheaded men in Europe, a century or two back, basically wimps.
[00:07:14] Will: I didn't think that was the stereotype.
[00:07:16] Rod: Apparently. Look at you, you hair colored person, you must be a wuss, giant man who'd pull my arms off. But of course you'd be amazed. Redheaded women at the time, here's a taste. Here's a taste of redheaded women round 19th century and so forth.
[00:07:30] A very credible 19th century scientifically robust study.
[00:07:36] Will: So not? I think you're coughing intends not
[00:07:39] Rod: by Cesare Lombroso and Guglielmo Ferraro.
[00:07:44] Will: Hang on. Cesare lombroso? I wonder if we've talked about him before. Is he a head measurer?
[00:07:49] Rod: Given what he's about to say, almost definitely he would have been an anthropometrist. So they concluded that red hair was associated with crimes of lust, rapishness. Rapicity? They also concluded that 48 percent of criminal women were redheads
[00:08:02] Will: is that consistent with the number of redheads in the population?
[00:08:05] Rod: Not even remotely. Not even a hint close.
[00:08:07] Will: So a lot of our criminal women are the redheads.
[00:08:10] Rod: Clearly, that's what's associated if not causing it.
[00:08:13] Will: You know, if that is true, which I probably don't suspect so, it could be maybe not just due to the redheads causing it, but maybe society?
[00:08:22] Rod: Listen to you. What are you, a Thinkster? Talking about temperament. So Ayurvedic practice. So in Indian medicinal practice, Ayurveda stuff. Redheads are seen as most likely to have a Pitta temperament. P I T A. So not Pitta as in the bread.
[00:08:37] Will: What does that mean?
[00:08:38] Rod: So Pitta, their skin and hair will have a reddish tint. No surprise.
[00:08:41] Will: Well, that's by definition.
[00:08:43] Rod: But they're saying Pitta look like this. We're saying redheads act like Pitta. So it goes in a circle. They are profuse sweaters who become overheated quickly and easily. Most often comfortable, therefore, in air conditioned areas. And I gotta say, again, calling back on my genetics, though not my hair, I'm a warm guy.
[00:08:57] Will: Yeah, but I don't think, I don't think the warmness is the red hair. Like I think you know, you know,
[00:09:02] Rod: The Pitta temperament continues. They're prone to suffer from rashes, psoriasis, or rosacea, mentally highly driven by the tendency to push themselves. Pitta dominant individuals often show an interest in law, fitness, science, business, and finance, or in capitals anything results driven and achievement oriented.
[00:09:21] Will: Hang on is this Ayurveda? Which is like a 2000 or more year old tradition.
[00:09:25] Rod: Yeah, but the website isn't 2000 years old.
[00:09:26] Will: Okay. ' cause all of this sounds like a more recent framing. Fitness, business, and law.
[00:09:31] Rod: This is the wholesome show bringing you into the 20th century, modernizing Ayurvedic practice. They enjoy structure in their lives and have highly organized minds, which is me to a T. Often found in positions of leadership due to their natural domineering personalities.
[00:09:46] Will: I thought they were wimps.
[00:09:47] Rod: That's men in Europe. We aren't in Europe and we're not only talking men here. Pittas have a tendency to become overly demanding, overly controlling, impatient with other individuals. Some are prone to physical and mental or adrenal burnout or fatigue because of their perfectionist characteristics. Again, that's how people describe me. Perfectionist.
[00:10:05] Will: Spoiler. Not ever.
[00:10:06] Rod: No one ever. Not even once. Not even once. So that's the Ayurvedic tradition. So on temperament, so European medicine, early stages, they say redheads, sanguine temperament, sanguine. Of course, sanguine is, you know, from the root sanguine blood. Characteristics of a sanguine temperament, someone who is marked by eager hopefulness. Confidently optimistic, allegedly, but they can also be energetic, outgoing, talkative, and creative.
[00:10:34] Will: These are all just a random bunch of everyone here.
[00:10:37] Rod: They are not. This is the sanguine temperament. Random, you just don't respect pseudoscience at all, do you? They can also be impulsive, lack discipline, be prone to addictive behaviours and there was a study that examined personality traits, pretty similar to the four temperaments, sanguine, choleric, and bilious, and what's the other one?
[00:10:54] Will: I don't know. You're telling the story.
[00:10:56] Rod: Gregacious. I didn't write them down. This temperament is closely associated with high activity and briskness and high endurance and low emotional reactivity.
[00:11:04] So yeah, it sounds to me like pretty much everything banging together here. Why are all these special beliefs about redheads? Why would people single out redheads? Like who gives a shit?
[00:11:13] Will: Cause you can.
[00:11:14] Rod: Yeah. Cause you can. Well, obviously.
[00:11:16] Will: I mean, that's the human thing. If we can single people out, we'll do it.
[00:11:19] Rod: So a bit of science. So red hair is caused by a mutation of the melanocortin 1 receptor, which is of course known as the MC1.
[00:11:30] Will: That was my second guess. I was just confused between the two of them.
[00:11:33] Rod: People with red hair have two copies of this particular variant of that gene. Both parents must be carriers of that gene to be able to
[00:11:41] Will: have the key and the lock
[00:11:42] Rod: you need two exactly. You need the hole and the pole, as they say, in my favorite novels.
[00:11:48] Will: In your favorite genetics textbooks.
[00:11:50] Rod: And so there's a 25 percent chance, even if these two people love each other very much and do the close hug, they won't have red hair themselves, but their offspring totes will.
[00:11:59] Will: So you still can. So you can still generate red without being one.
[00:12:02] Rod: Yeah. But also this thing people often don't realize, redhead genes can occur in any ethnic group. You don't have to be a European. So there are a couple, there are a few actors you can see who are clearly of African American heritage, but they are pale white skin, pretty much redhead, very pale eyed, but they have Features that reveal them to be African American as well.
[00:12:18] So it can be anywhere. It can be anywhere amongst any group. So you're asking how common it is. Not that roughly, maybe around the world, 2 percent or less of all people. The most common in which country do you think is the most common for redheads?
[00:12:33] Will: Ireland.
[00:12:33] Rod: They're second.
[00:12:34] Will: Oh, I just thought I was being knowledgeable. Japan.
[00:12:37] Rod: Yep.
[00:12:37] Will: Antarctica.
[00:12:38] Rod: Yes. Scotland. 13 percent of Scottish. And Ireland 10%. So technically shit loads more than the global average. Also, the suggestion is it's much more common in European countries. So two to 6 percent is more common in Europe than in your Japan's and your China's, et cetera. And the suggestion is it may have evolved more there because cloudy skies. I know
[00:12:59] Will: there's cloudy bits of Japan I think
[00:13:01] Rod: Not as regularly. And we'll get to why that matters in a moment. But although there are people who are saying therefore climate change, If there's less clouds, we could breed out redheads, but there are other people saying that's a load of shit, mate.
[00:13:12] Will: That is a load of shit. Yeah. That is not how genetics works anymore.
[00:13:16] Rod: Anymore? Cause we fixed it.
[00:13:19] Will: Yes. Cause we live indoors. Natural selection pressures have changed between 10, 000 years ago and now.
[00:13:26] Rod: Do you live indoors? You seem like an outdoorsy.
[00:13:28] Will: I'm not saying we fixed. I'm just saying that the pressures may be different.
[00:13:31] Rod: We may have affected our own evolution. But look, it's pretty reasonable to suggest part of the reason we're fascinated by redheads or at least into abusing them or loving them because they're unusual. Well, aren't you yet?
[00:13:40] Will: No, look I'm interested.
[00:13:42] Rod: What if I give you some pros, then you'll become interested. You ready? There are pros. So redheaded women respond better to opiates. Actual science, just for fun. Fuck it. Let's go. Science. Science. So redheaded women, yeah, they respond better to opiates than men and non redheaded women. So they're the winners. You give them a little bit of opium they get really loaded.
[00:14:02] Will: Who tested that?
[00:14:03] Rod: I did.
[00:14:03] Will: Well, like where, when did they go? You know what we really need to find out.
[00:14:06] Rod: We're not talking heroin. We mean like in medical scenarios.
[00:14:09] Will: Even then, who is like, okay, we really need to find out.
[00:14:12] Rod: Look at redhead. Let's see how they're different. Give them drugs.
[00:14:15] Will: But that, you know, you can find differences all over the place if you go looking for them, doesn't mean that's science.
[00:14:21] Rod: Gingers make more vitamin D than other types, so they need less time in the sun to get their vitamin D, which is nice. And this is part of that cloudy evolution theory. There was less sun exposure, therefore.
[00:14:34] Will: So it's a way of catching the sun faster. Yeah, you catch it with your flaming hair
[00:14:37] Rod: with your solar panel skin in here.
[00:14:38] Will: Yeah, basically. That's what it is. Human solar panels.
[00:14:41] Rod: Exactly. And what it means is they're less at risk for obviously vitamin D deficiency, but also therefore less at risk for diabetes, rickets, and arthritis. And rickets has always terrified me. I've always worried that I'll suddenly get rickets.
[00:14:51] Will: It sounds like a fencing disease.
[00:14:54] Rod: Like for people with swords or people who build barriers?
[00:14:56] Will: Like barriers. Like, like I think it's a rickety thing. It's a, that's what I always think with rickets.
[00:15:00] Rod: he's got rickets. He can't make a fence. The fence has collapsed.
[00:15:03] Will: I don't know what rickets is.
[00:15:04] Rod: It's bowleggedness and other.
[00:15:05] Will: Yeah, there you go. Can't make a fence.
[00:15:07] Rod: Cause bow legged people can't do it. Redheads are apparently, I like this one super efficient with regard to adrenaline. Apparently they produce more of it and they access it faster than us.
[00:15:17] Will: That's why the whole temperament.
[00:15:19] Rod: Yeah. Look at you with your adrenal uptake faster than me. Stop stabbing me with the office supplies. Redheads this, I don't know if I quite buy this. They don't go grey. They say they fade to white via rose gold. This is cosmopolitan. Look at me fading to white by rose gold.
[00:15:34] Will: Arctic Muff? Fade to white. Come on. White is grey. Like in the spectrum.
[00:15:39] Rod: How fucking dare you, sir? This is Cosmopolitan Magazine. Also, this is an interesting one. British Journal of Cancer, 2013. Redhead men may be less likely to develop prostate cancer. But they were saying in 20, 000 men long term health study, 1 percent of redheads, prostate cancer. 40 percent of men with light brown hair or darker. That's a big difference. Of course, there are probably only two redheads in the group out of 20, 000 so who knows? Cons.
[00:16:04] Will: Prejudice?
[00:16:05] Rod: I'm talking like biological ones. Oh, sorry. Let me just say first, there's one source that said, Oh, redheads are perceived as being funnier. And I'm like, really, but it's okay cause a professor of the history of comedy at the university of Buffalo said so.
[00:16:19] Will: Did he do the genetic analysis or did he just see a lot of funny red heads?
[00:16:23] Rod: Absolutely not. The argument seems to be, we first see it in circus clowns who wore red wigs because they had to be seen from the back of the room and therefore I assume there's been some association.
[00:16:33] Will: Or, you know, there was a lot of prejudice and perhaps the kid with the red hair in school thought well, I'll deal with this prejudice by being a clown.
[00:16:40] Rod: That's how I dealt with it. Cons more likely to suffer from Tourette's. So you thought I was just a sweary pants.
[00:16:47] Will: Don't have Tourette's
[00:16:48] Rod: more prone to Parkinson's disease at least according to mouse studies Which is a bummer to do with dopamine the amount of dopamine that's in specific parts of the brain, Etc. So that's problem. Red headed women more likely to get endometriosis Which is a bummer to say least and according to Cosmo magazine, this is a great quote, it's a ball ache to dye red hair
[00:17:09] Will: Okay That's fair enough.
[00:17:10] Rod: If you try and dye red hair, your balls ache.
[00:17:12] Will: Yeah, no, I think what they're saying is it's tough.
[00:17:14] Rod: It doesn't hold pigment in the same way.
[00:17:16] Will: It's the thicker of the strands.
[00:17:18] Rod: It is. It may be thinner, but it is thicker, so to speak. More sparse, but thicker pros and cons. So redheads, more resistant to local anesthetics, like lidocaine. Resistance when anesthetic doesn't sound great.
[00:17:30] They apparently need more general anesthetic on the operating table. In some cases, more than 20 percent more than non reds.
[00:17:36] Will: I thought they were good at taking up opiates.
[00:17:38] Rod: Women, particular opiates, but not, I don't know if general anesthetics or opiates.
[00:17:42] Will: I'm just calling a little, just a little bit of bullshit on some of this.
[00:17:45] Rod: Science.
[00:17:46] Will: Yeah. Okay. Keep going.
[00:17:48] Rod: All science. Smell. Do you want to guess?
[00:17:51] Will: Is this either that they're stinkier or that they're good at detecting it?
[00:17:55] Rod: I want you to guess.
[00:17:55] Will: It's both of those. It's both of those. That's the problem. What do you want me to say? They smell delightful. You all smelled it.
[00:18:01] Rod: Thank you. That's what I was waiting for. Positive spin. So 1866, Dr. Augustin Galopin.
[00:18:07] Will: Not science.
[00:18:08] Rod: Yeah, he wrote a book called Le parfum de la femme, The Stink of the Lady, I think is the direct translation. In it he says that he has a theory that women smell differently based on their hair color. And he notes that redheaded women smell like amber grease, whale chunder.
[00:18:24] Will: So not science.
[00:18:25] Rod: What? Whale chunder is not science? But there is science behind that potentially. So redheads have a acidic or more acidic skin mantle. So the sebaceous layer over the skin than others. So it may be, when you spray perfume on them, it smells a little different.
[00:18:41] Will: Why have people done all of this science?
[00:18:44] Rod: They want to vindicate the reds.
[00:18:46] Will: Why do people keep doing this?
[00:18:48] Rod: Cause they're fascinated like the original article said.
[00:18:51] Will: I don't understand. I don't understand why people would go.
[00:18:54] Rod: Would you say you're fascinated now?
[00:18:57] Will: I want to go with. I just feel like it's not a real area of science. Prove me wrong.
[00:19:02] Rod: I did not argue that it was. I'm going to get to one at the end, which you're going to love. Pain, wanna guess?
[00:19:09] Will: They've got a super high pain threshold because, you know,
[00:19:12] Rod: so they're more sensitive to certain kinds of pain, particularly thermal pain. So heat temperature
[00:19:17] Will: why is there so much research on this?
[00:19:20] Rod: Why wouldn't there be? Because people worry about, but they might be better it seems at resisting pain when it's carried by electric currents. So they make better spies. You going to torture someone, they'd be like, you can shock me all you want. I am a redhead.
[00:19:34] Will: I don't think that's what you want in a spy
[00:19:37] Rod: to resist pain. Yeah, you do.
[00:19:38] Will: I think that is lower down on the criteria.
[00:19:41] Rod: What's higher?
[00:19:42] Will: Blending in.
[00:19:43] Rod: Don't get caught? Blending in, that could be a problem. One of the less than 2%. We see you in Beijing and we're thinking you might not be from around here
[00:19:49] Will: I think if a spy is getting to the torture point, they have failed in their major job.
[00:19:52] Rod: Or they've done such an excellent job at infiltration, they've gotten deeper than expected. Apparently there's some research that also suggests redheads are better at handling sharp or stabbing pain. How would you like to be part of that experiment?
[00:20:04] Will: How did science come to this? Test stabbing pain. I'll need a dozen redheads and a dozen of other.
[00:20:11] Rod: Okay, I'm going to stab all you fuckers.
[00:20:13] Will: When did science need this?
[00:20:15] Rod: Whoever cries harder, wuss. Interestingly, popular culture that, so ads, there is a little thing done 2014 redheads are more, at least in 2014, they appear more in popular commercials.
[00:20:28] Will: They stand out more.
[00:20:30] Rod: Why? Cause the pain threshold.
[00:20:32] Will: Fewer of them.
[00:20:33] Rod: So according to this as a mob called upstreet analysis, they did a report and they said 30 percent of TV commercials running during prime time in that year featured a redhead and when you take out the ads that didn't have people in them, which would make sense, like here's a bunch of cars, none of them are redheads.
[00:20:48] Will: I think the main guy in cars was a redhead. Like he was a red car. So that counts as a redheaded car. Like, once a car is talking, the color of the car is the color of the hair or is it the color of the skin? which bit is the hair?
[00:20:59] Rod: So 33 percent when you take people out. So basically a third of ads and at one point CBS had a redhead featured prominently every 106 seconds.
[00:21:08] Will: Jesus. Why are we counting this?
[00:21:10] Rod: And it was women more than men, twice as many of them were women than men. And so the speculation is, I love this one. They're probably there because they're super photogenic and I'm like, well, that seems pretty big generalization.
[00:21:25] Will: Are you saying the models are super photogenic? Models are often employed because they're super photogenic
[00:21:29] Rod: then redhead models, even more so, obviously I agree, but they may not. Another one that says, Oh, it's probably because seeing the color red has positive effects on our body. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? It's also a warning and an alert. Anyway, here's the real shock. There's sexism in this. Did you know that?
[00:21:45] Will: Are you saying that bigotry can cut in multiple ways? Or you can be double bigotized.
[00:21:50] Rod: You can be double bigoted. And yes, what a shock that one of the common ones is sexism. First up, redheaded women are thought of as being more volatile. We've talked about this, but men aren't. And apparently they are more sexually inclined and the quote runs, often stereotyped as sexy, passionate, sexually liberated, or promiscuous. Women only, not men. And I honestly, I'd not heard that. Like, I'm like, really?
[00:22:13] Will: You've not heard that? No wonder you're fascinated by this article. You're finally, I've never thought any of these things.
[00:22:18] Rod: It sounds like something I would have heard of. That's why I'm like, really? Okay tell me more. I'll turn the page. So there's a book written by a woman called Jackie Collis Harvey, and the book's called Red, A History of the Redhead, and she is, spoiler alert, a redhead.
[00:22:32] She says, from time immemorial, it signified, the red hair, that as a woman, I was both sluttish and dangerous, although if you could get me into bed, it, the color of my hair, would promise, in the words of the sociologist Grant McCracken, in Big Hair, sensual delights of extraordinary proportions. Sluttish and dangerous, well, let's get to it.
[00:22:52] Jonathan Swift satirizes redheads in Gulliver's Travels. So he's got a voyage to the country of the Hoonamins. He says that it is observed that the redhead of both sexes are more libidinous, mischievous, and the rest whom they much exceed in strength and activity. So they're strong and Rick rats, but science, it turns out actually looked into this. So the journal frontiers in psychology, 2022, a paper from people from Charles university in Prague, the paper is called
[00:23:25] Will: Why do you always do that?
[00:23:27] Rod: Because to announce that I'm going to read something.
[00:23:29] Will: You don't have to. You can just read it. You can just read the name. You can just read them. I can't read your writing. The paper is titled redheaded women are more sexually active than other women, but it is probably due to their suitors.
[00:23:44] Rod: You forgot to clear your throat. No one knew you were reading something. So the aim, this is snippets. I'm not going to read the whole paper, obviously, but snippets from the abstract are worth it. The aim of the present case control study was to explore whether a connection between red hair color and sexual behavior really exists so there you go, they're trying. Using data from 110 women and 93 men. Of these, about third of the women are redheaded and a fifth of the men.
[00:24:07] Will: You know, I'm not one to say that we must cure cancer as the only thing that science should do.
[00:24:12] Rod: No. 'cause also heart disease.
[00:24:13] Will: There's a lot of good science out there in a lot of good fields
[00:24:15] Rod: and this is most of it.
[00:24:16] Will: No. Did this need to be asked?
[00:24:19] Rod: Well, it did because we're fascinated.
[00:24:20] Will: No.
[00:24:21] Rod: Redheadedness in women correlated with various traits related to sexual life. Namely, with higher sexual desire as measured by the revised socio sexual orientation inventory, you know the one, with higher sexual activity, more sexual partners of the preferred gender over the past year, earlier initiation of sexual life and higher sexual submissiveness.
[00:24:42] This is what they say. The results of this study suggest that redheaded women exhibit higher sexual desire, more activity, number of sexual partners, early initiation of sexual life and higher blah, blah, blah. However, sexual desire does not seem to mediate the more liberated sexual behavior in redheaded women in our data.
[00:24:59] What they're really saying is the results indirectly indicate that apparently more liberated sexual behavior in redheaded women could be seen as the consequence of potential mates, frequent attempts to have sex with them.
[00:25:11] Will: So it's the others.
[00:25:14] Rod: They say, but look, given the lack of data regarding women's motives for having sex and men's motives for approaching red headed women, we can't consider this to be
[00:25:24] Will: What do you mean the lack of data? The lack of data in their study? Okay.
[00:25:27] Rod: Yeah, or in general apparently. I don't think there's a lot on it. And back to your question, who's doing this and why?
[00:25:31] Will: The motives for having sex?
[00:25:33] Rod: No, doing the studies about the motives. So they say it should be borne in mind that sexual desire is not the only one possible motive for active initiation of sexual activities. So there could be, as I put it, legitimate candidates such as concentration of prenatal estrogen, you know, faster life strategy possibly induced by unfavorable conditions in childhood. You've had a shit time, therefore you want to live faster and young, leave a good looking corpse. Or the redheads own internal belief in stereotypes about themselves, which I think is the magic
[00:26:07] Will: but these are quite different explanations. One's like chemical. It's like you've got more estrogen. The other one is like some internal beliefs and the others, like you had a rough childhood, like these are random sorts of explanations
[00:26:16] Rod: when it comes to bet hedging, though, pretty much there's no hedge left. I'm going to put us out of our misery. Hold some verdict on this. I reckon there are many pros to being a ginger. That's my impression. And there are a couple of medical related cons. We talked about those like sunburn and Tourette's and stuff. But it seems like most of the cons are based on superstition, out grouping.
[00:26:34] Will: I'm so surprised.
[00:26:35] Rod: Imagine that. Imagine that. And the one about red headed ladies being more promiscuous or sexually aggressive etc, it's beautifully circular. So any argument you see is like, they're more promiscuous and open to sex, therefore more people try and hit on them, therefore the numbers go up because more of them are being hit on and round it goes. So I stand by my modified version of my reaction to why are we so interested? What is it fascinated by redheads? Because redheads are rare! And also babes. That's my summary. Redheads are babes. You're babes, redheads. You're babes.
[00:27:04] Will: Just stop it. Just stop it. Just stop it.
[00:27:07] Rod: Is it them or us?
[00:27:08] Will: Oh my God. Any other topics you want to talk about?
[00:27:13] Rod: Tell me one of yours.
[00:27:14] Will: You know what? I don't want to do a biography of Albert Einstein, but I do want to know.
[00:27:19] Rod: Just his relationship with women?
[00:27:20] Will: E equals MC squared. you know, it's one of the most famous formulae in history. Like you ask anyone to write down a science formula and people go, Oh, E equals MC squared.
[00:27:30] Rod: A squared plus B squared equals C squared.
[00:27:33] Will: That's another one. Yeah. Okay. It's pretty famous. I'm just wondering what was the moment like when he Realize this was actually a weird, like definition of the universe thing and it comes down to be really simple and then why does it stand out so much?
[00:27:45] Rod: Wouldn't that break your brain? He's gone through this stuff. He's seen through space and time, like literally he's got blackboards covered in stuff and then he's gone, I think it's these three terms. It's just these three terms.
[00:27:53] Will: Just three, it's pretty simple.
[00:27:55] Rod: It's insane. It's too simple.
[00:27:57] Will: What do you got?
[00:27:57] Rod: What is life? And I don't mean spiritually, I mean literally the definition of life. Biologists kick the shit out of each other over this, as do others.
[00:28:05] Will: Well, I reckon we could solve it in 45 minutes. I know life when I see it, I know death when I see it, so why don't they ask me?
[00:28:12] Rod: They haven't? What else you got? Anything?
[00:28:14] Will: Well, this one was a, just a little story. We've all heard for a while that reducing your animal produce intake is good for the climate.
[00:28:20] Rod: Don't eat any more leather than you have to.
[00:28:22] Will: Yeah. Yeah. Reduce your leather, but reduce your meat, reduce your dairy, all that kind of stuff. There was a new study out.
[00:28:28] Rod: Increase.
[00:28:29] Will: Well, no, it's not saying increase, but it's the meat. Dairy seems to be off the hook. Like dairy seems, you know, despite all of these these new milks the nut milks and all those kinds of things, dairy seems to be not terrible for the climate.
[00:28:42] Okay. There is an effect. There is an effect. It's not great. But it seems like the way worse component for the climate of the dairy industry is the meat.
[00:28:50] Rod: So ignoring that bit, which would you give up if you had to give up dairy or meat, I'd take meat.
[00:28:56] Will: I think I'd probably keep dairy.
[00:28:58] Rod: Yeah. Cause cheese, come on. Fucking cheese. I mean, we're being glared at by a vegan right now, but I tell you, man, far out, so good. I got one more. Are there any good cults? Surely there must be a good cult and I'm asking, you know, not at all out of personal interest or retirement planning, but like, are there any good cults?
[00:29:17] Will: Depends on your definition of good.
[00:29:19] Rod: Does it?
[00:29:21] Will: We are rapidly approaching by far the most dangerous moment in American history in 150 years in America and therefore globally. I was watching Trump has pretty recently, you know, been more explicit about being a dictator and being more monarchical, like being a king, like he is looking absolutely to throw out the constitution and there are many of his supporters who are like no, well, Trump should be immune. The president should be immune. Should be allowed to do whatever.
[00:29:50] Rod: No, not the president Trump.
[00:29:52] Will: Exactly. Now I know there's a movie coming out pretty soon, which I think will be really interesting.
[00:29:55] Rod: Is it called King Trump?
[00:29:56] Will: That's called civil war.
[00:29:57] Rod: That's already been done. That was a marvel.
[00:29:59] Will: No, not the marvel version. No, this is literally 2024 civil war what's it going to be like? And I'm interested in gathering some academic perspectives on this because I get the feeling
[00:30:10] Rod: that's a lot of material.
[00:30:12] Will: In America, there's current state government trifectas. So a trifecta is when one party Republicans or Democrats controls the lower house, upper house and the governor. So at the state level they've got all of those three.
[00:30:23] And weirdly it's huge. It's like, I think 40 outta the 52 are completely dominated by one side, of which I think about 32 might be Republican and 17 or so a Democrat, and then there's like 10 that are mixed. And there's a chunk of me that's thinking those Republican, how many of them will say in this presidential election, whatever happened, we picked Trump. So Trump is our president, and I suspect there is a split very soon. And I wonder what would it look like? What are the sorts of early stages? How does this manifest?
[00:30:54] Rod: I think it's fascinating. There's a lot.
[00:30:55] Will: It's horrifying.
[00:30:56] Rod: Can you do it in one episode?
[00:30:57] Will: Can I do it? I don't know, but I want to find someone to talk to because I think it's like, clearly this movie will be big. It's time to start being explicit because what happens to Australia? Like what happens to the rest of the world when America goes civil war? Jesus.
[00:31:11] Rod: Well, we lose a lot of TV and movies
[00:31:13] Will: and that is the number one thing america. Don't do that to us.
[00:31:16] Rod: Yeah. I like your popular cultures.
