Meteorologists are getting death threats from conspiracy theorists who think they're controlling hurricanes, plants are literally screaming when you stress them out (and bugs can hear it), and there used to be dogs whose entire job was turning meat on a spit by running on some early form of a treadmill.
Hurricane Milton: When Weather Becomes a Weapon (Apparently)
Category Five Hurricane Milton didn't just destroy property in October 2024 - it also destroyed some people's grip on reality. Conspiracy theorists are now convinced that meteorologists are secretly controlling hurricanes as part of some grand weather manipulation plot.
Trained scientists who can barely predict if it'll rain tomorrow are apparently masterminding massive storm systems to... what exactly? Ruin beach holidays? The poor meteorologists are getting death threats from people who think they're evil weather wizards. Meanwhile, actual climate change is sitting in the corner going "Am I a joke to you?"
Humans: Nature's Weirdest Dating Coaches
In possibly the strangest research finding, humans are surprisingly good at identifying the sexiest animal mating calls. We can pick out which bullfrog croaks and bird songs are most attractive to potential mates, even though we have no idea why.
We're basically nature's unsolicited dating advice columnists, rating animal pickup lines without understanding the criteria. Your ability to judge frog attractiveness is apparently hardwired into your brain for reasons science hasn't figured out yet.
Plants Are Screaming At Us
Here's something that'll make you think twice about your gardening habits - plants emit ultrasonic screams when they're stressed. You can't hear them, but insects apparently can, and they're probably judging how you’re turning the soil.
Your houseplant isn't just wilting dramatically for attention, it's literally crying for help at frequencies we can't detect. The bugs in your garden are basically eavesdropping on plant distress calls, which explains why they always know exactly which plants are struggling. Nature's got its own emergency broadcast system, and we've been completely oblivious to it.
Turnspit Dogs: The Kitchen Slaves We Bred Into Extinction
Meet the turnspit dog - a breed we literally created to run on wheels that turned meat spits in kitchens. These poor little guys spent their entire lives as living kitchen appliances, running in hamster wheels to cook our dinner.
We bred them short-legged and long-bodied specifically for this job, then made them extinct when we invented better kitchen technology. Nothing says "human ingenuity" quite like breeding a dog to be a meat-turning machine.
AI Vibe Coding: When Silicon Valley Gets Too High on Its Own Supply
Silicon Valley's latest obsession is "vibe coding”. Some tech titans are convinced AI will solve all humanity's problems, which sounds suspiciously familiar to every other tech revolution that was going to save the world.
Adam Becker's book "More Everything Forever" takes a reality check to these utopian AI fantasies, pointing out that maybe we should understand what we're building before we hand over the keys to civilisation. Revolutionary idea: let's figure out how AI actually works before we let it run everything.
From weather conspiracy theories to screaming plants, extinct kitchen dogs to AI hype cycles - science keeps proving that reality is far weirder than anything we could imagine.
Stay curious, keep questioning everything, and maybe apologise to your houseplants...
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction
01:11 Conspiracy Theories and Election Manipulation
04:40 Meteorologists Under Attack
14:59 Nature Sounds and Animal Communication
20:34 Plants in Distress and Insect Reactions
23:34 The Peculiar Job of Deafening Moths
25:47 Strange and Remarkable Dog Breeds
27:48 The Turnspit Dog: A Kitchen Helper
35:54 The Future of Technology and AI
38:56 Book Review: More Everything Forever
SOURCES:
More Everything Forever Book: https://amzn.to/3IGKfNG
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/13/pentagon-pizza-delivery-israel-iran-attack
https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/dog-breeds/rare-dog-breeds-you-never-knew-existed/
https://animals.howstuffworks.com/pets/turnspit-dogs.htm
https://a-z-animals.com/animals/turnspit/
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[00:00:00]
[00:00:01] ROD: October, 2024. Hurricane Milton. Category five, highest you can go. Biggest and worst category of all honking around the bottom end of the United States, Gulf of Mexico or America, depending on your, proclivities, the wind's got up to 285 kilometers an hour, which is between four and a million miles per hour, 180.
[00:00:24] It was the fourth most intense Atlantic hurricane on record. And pressure level was apparently the equal, highest it's ever been in the Gulf of
[00:00:33] WILL: of,
[00:00:34] ROD: me Mexico, equal with the other highest one, which was Hurricane Rita, 2005. It killed 45 people, at least 35 billion in damages. So it was big and it was nasty.
[00:00:47] And it wasn't that long ago, but it was also unusual apparently. It,followed a very, as they call it, unconventional path. It went from west to east, which is really, really unusual for hurricanes, particularly in that area. [00:01:00] Um, and this was almost certainly, at least partially related to climate change.
[00:01:03] And its intensity was almost definitely related to climate change. so all we need, this is just another indicator to say maybe we should do something about climate change. Or was it because it could have also been a cunning plan by deep state Democrats and the most malevolent of all scientists, meteorologists
[00:01:30] WILL: It is time. Yep. For a little bit of science. Yes. I'm will grant, associate professor at the Australian National University in Science Communication.
[00:01:39] ROD: I'm Rod Lambert's, a 30 year veteran of science communication, but I have the mind of a teenage boy.
[00:01:44] WILL: Ah, and today, well, I've got some, I've got some nature sounds for you.
[00:01:49] Sounds from animals, sounds from plants.
[00:01:52] ROD: Ooh. I've got a little bit of fun with animals, but they also kind of morph into kitchen appliances.
[00:01:57] WILL: I've got a, well, AI's [00:02:00] not for that.
[00:02:02] ROD: That's big category.
[00:02:03] WILL: I did my high school book review for you of Adam Becker's.
[00:02:07] More Everything Forever. I'm gonna tell you about that.
[00:02:10] ROD: It's sitting right there.
[00:02:11] WILL: Oh my god.
[00:02:13] ROD: Kidding. Cunningly under that keyboard. Partially. Nice job. What an exciting, whatever time of day it is you're listening for listeners.
[00:02:21] WILL: Exactly the time that it is though.
[00:02:23] ROD: It is exactly the
[00:02:24] WILL: time. Like, like it's right now.
[00:02:25] Like right now. That's the thing. You know about podcasting. It's right now,
[00:02:28] ROD: then not about time. Einstein might fight with you.
[00:02:31] WILL: Well, Einstein hadn't invented podcasts yet.
[00:02:33] ROD: Or time Oh, he had done so, yeah. Hurricane Milton. when it was fomenting and starting its journey towards the
[00:02:41] WILL: Did they foment?
[00:02:42] Yes.
[00:02:43] ROD: In the firm? They foment in the firmament. Do they? Yeah. It's an official, non-official
[00:02:48] WILL: I I thought, I thought they leavened or leave. You know, they proved you gotta leave them out to prove for a bit
[00:02:54] ROD: Oh, they do expand. That's true. Oh fuck. yeah, so it was doing this [00:03:00] thing, this is heading towards land early October 24.
[00:03:03] WILL: So hang on. You just said it went backwards.
[00:03:05] ROD: Yeah. It went in the wrong direction or very unusual direct. Normally they go the other way. This one went, you know, right
[00:03:11] WILL: Screw guys.
[00:03:12] ROD: I'm going Vista way. Yeah, I'm Milton. I've had enough shit about my name as a child. Now that I'm a grown up hurricane. I'll do whatever I
[00:03:19] WILL: Love, love you all. Milton's. But, uh, it's, it's, it's not the toughest sounding name.
[00:03:24] ROD: No, but it's one of those many names that when you're a kid you get a whole bunch of crap for it, and then you become an adult and you become cool at something. It's like, oh, Milton's a pretty cool name
[00:03:31] WILL: That's fine.
[00:03:32] ROD: So many names are like that. October, 2024 was also. Very close to election time. Coincidence of course, but of course also there was a surge in allegations.
[00:03:43] The meteorologists and government agencies were deliberately creating steering and or intensifying storms. You would remember this, I'm sure, sorry,
[00:03:51] WILL: sorry. Just, just meteorological. Uh, agencies normally ENT tasked with understanding and predicting the weather. Yeah. But instead there's an accusation that [00:04:00] they're making the
[00:04:00] ROD: manipulating, making meteor romances.
[00:04:04] They were doing the manipulations. So for some people, what I love about this is a proof of the, the fact that this was going on was because it traveled this unconventional path that couldn't have been climate change or something else. It was proof that they could actually manipulate it and, and send it in non-normal directions.
[00:04:20] So,
[00:04:21] WILL: So, so they would do that. Why?
[00:04:22] ROD: Well, to, to mess with the election and to trash red states. Duh. I mean, hit Florida hard.
[00:04:28] WILL: A lot of hurricanes hit Florida hard, like Florida is in the hurricane.
[00:04:32] ROD: See, that's what they want you to think. This is the first one to ever hit Florida.
[00:04:37] WILL: Okay. Okay.
[00:04:38] ROD: Category five. Yeah. Look, and the, the claims obviously, they, they came from the fringe and they started to move more mainstream.
[00:04:44] And famously Marjorie Taylor Greene. Yes. The most Australian bogan version of an American politician I've ever seen. She, every time I see her, I go, you are straight out of traditional boganville in Australia, not Boganville, in Papua New Guinea. Of course it's a different place. No, that's, yeah. The vil of [00:05:00] bogans.
[00:05:00] Anyway, she basically said things like this, yes, they can control the weather. It's ridiculous for anyone to lie and say it can't be done.
[00:05:09] WILL: Okay. Ridiculous. Which side are you gonna come out on this? Just so I know which way of my, my emotions to go.
[00:05:14] ROD: Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm against meteorologists monsters. A lot of them.
[00:05:17] I've never met one eye. I didn't fear.
[00:05:20] WILL: Okay.
[00:05:20] ROD: The terrifying people.
[00:05:21] WILL: Okay.
[00:05:23] ROD: Um, also her rhetoric, as they put it, implied it might've been engineered to have an effect on the election and others of course also implied. And by implied, I mean may have directly said so. So that's cool. So of course in the wake of this, one of the quotes is shockingly common.
[00:05:42] A number of threats and types of threats started to emerge aimed at meteorologists, meteorological areas, et cetera, obviously. Yeah. Okay. Obviously it's them. 'cause this idiot said so. it's a conspiracy. It always is. So things like destroy all their radar equipment.
[00:05:56] WILL: Oh, okay. All right.
[00:05:57] ROD: Kill those who created the hurricanes and those [00:06:00] people should stop breathing.
[00:06:02] It could mean anything. What they mean is, I dunno, meditate. A lot.
[00:06:06] WILL: Well, I mean, kill those who created the hurricanes.
[00:06:09] ROD: Sure.
[00:06:10] WILL: well, I'm just saying, just, just pause. Just pause. Yeah. If someone was creating hurricanes Sure. Then not saying killing is the solution, but that it does seem like an evil
[00:06:19] ROD: one solution.
[00:06:19] WILL: you know, an evil mastermind taken over the world, that kind of thing. Yeah. So we should take drastic action if someone is creating hurricane.
[00:06:26] So I'm just, I'm just, I'm just buying a little bit into their, into not their causal logic, but where things go once they've got
[00:06:32] ROD: there. Well, that's 'cause you're a reasonable man who thinks things through.
[00:06:35] so James Span was a, a meteorology guy in Alabama and he reported being inundated with messages, demanding things like he stopped lying about the government controlling the weather or else,
[00:06:46] WILL: Okay.
[00:06:47] ROD: and his experience was not uncommon. And I remember hearing about this at the time and thinking death threats to meteorologists.
[00:06:53] What, what? It's like getting angry with people who make sandwiches or, or I don't know, read [00:07:00] like, what, what, what are you
[00:07:02] WILL: about? Give you useful information. Like this is, this is, this is the thing it comes down to.
[00:07:05] Yeah. They're giving useful information. Yeah. And people are angry at them for that useful information.
[00:07:10] ROD: Yeah. Because it's their fault. They're not just handing over information, they're creating the circumstances under which such
[00:07:15] WILL: you know, you know, people have long said, don't shoot the messenger, but, but if I was like, you know, evil dictator or, or barbarian king, like,
[00:07:23] ROD: oh,
[00:07:23] WILL: I, I feel like, I feel like.
[00:07:26] It would be satisfying. It's a bit at the beginning of, Gladiator. Yeah. Where, where they sent a message and the message come, messenger comes riding back, headless on a horse, you know, tied to the horse. And I'm like, I, I can understand that our message, our message
[00:07:40] ROD: barbarian king, I mean, you had me at Barbarian King.
[00:07:42] I, I found it hard to listen. 'cause I was just imagining being a barbarian king,
[00:07:45] WILL: you got stuck on barbarian
[00:07:47] ROD: God, I'd be good at it. Oh, I'd make such a good barbarian king. I'd be dead by now. But
[00:07:51] WILL: y yes you would.
[00:07:52] ROD: Extremely dead actually, and probably in a terrible way, anyway. it was not uncommon for him, for people in his profession to be abused this way. [00:08:00] So heaps of meteorologists, they said they were severely harassed. There was vandalism, their offices, their cars, houses, I believe intimidated and indeed direct death threats.
[00:08:10] Literally people threatening to kill them, which sounds crazy, right? Because there's no way we can change the weather. No.
[00:08:17] WILL: Is this gonna be a spoiler where you say climate change?
[00:08:20] ROD: No, I've never,
[00:08:21] WILL: I, I mean, I mean, I mean, we are, we are.
[00:08:23] ROD: We're, yeah. They don't think about that one though.
[00:08:25] WILL: Okay. Not that one.
[00:08:26] ROD: That's, that's the one that doesn't count. That's what I love about this. So you've got another guy, Matthew Capucci. He's a Washington DC meteorologist. Nearly 50 years of experience in the game. Yep. In the trade, on the tools, he says, an average hurricane's lifecycle burns through the energy of roughly, let's say, 10,000 nuclear bombs.
[00:08:44] WILL: Ah, sure. I mean, that's, that's obviously How many, how many horsepower is that? How many?
[00:08:47] ROD: It's, it's like 10 and a half thousand horses. Yeah.
[00:08:50] WILL: I'm just used to converting all Sydney Harbors. I, I don't know. Oh no,
[00:08:53] ROD: It's a billion Sydney Harbors worth of energy and horse weight. Me horse me.
[00:08:57] WILL: I just feel like I get, I get like, an [00:09:00] average hurricane is 10,000 nuclear.
[00:09:02] It's like, okay, that's, that's a lot. Okay, cool guys,
[00:09:04] ROD: It's a lot. So what they just say is really huge. Christ, it's big. he said, so the idea that we could influence something like that, nevermind direct. It is so outlandish. It's almost sadly funny.
[00:09:17] WILL: Yeah. But surely there's some sort of new modern tech.
[00:09:20] ROD: we've tried.
[00:09:21] WILL: Yeah.
[00:09:22] ROD: I mean, we talked about, I think I told you a story years ago about a dude who tried to bomb the sky to change the weather, or did you tell me Yeah. Who told who? Yeah,
[00:09:30] WILL: Yeah. Yeah. You know, in the, in the olden days. In the olden days. But definitely, definitely folk have, folk have tried
[00:09:34] ROD: were stories. Yeah. Yeah. There's a, there's a project called Storm Fury.
[00:09:38] they tried to weaken tropical cyclones by flying aircraft into them and see them with silver iodide. That was in the sixties, through
[00:09:45] WILL: I mean, that's just, that's just cool cowboy stuff. Yes. Like, that's just like, who cares if it works or not? This will be fun to try.
[00:09:51] We
[00:09:51] ROD: we air men, we, we have no wars to fight.
[00:09:54] We gotta do something dangerous
[00:09:55] WILL: inside a hurricane and, and drop some chemicals. Yeah.
[00:09:58] ROD: Drop some chemicals in there, which allegedly [00:10:00] would, super cool the water in the storm to freeze it and disrupt the structure of the hurricane. yeah, it didn't work.
[00:10:06] WILL: Ah.
[00:10:06] ROD: But as you say, I mean, of course we have managed to change the weather.
[00:10:08] It's called climate change. You people. Buffoons. Buffoons, that's it. You buffoons. but of course that's not acceptable. We have to go back to the evil meteorologists. The true. True evils of this. So a woman called Katie Nikola, she's in Detroit Meteorologist. She says, I put
[00:10:27] WILL: I put
[00:10:27] ROD: on armor every day to try to go online and make sure people aren't saying things that could harm responses, as in messages to evacuate, letting helpers in, et cetera.
[00:10:38] She said she's had to fend off rumors that meteorologists should just use giant fans to blow the hurricanes away.
[00:10:44] WILL: Yes, yes, of course. Just, just, just use some giant fans. Why don't, why don't all of those wind turbines Yep. Just turn 'em on backwards. Yeah. And so
[00:10:54] ROD: are good
[00:10:54] WILL: problems sold except
[00:10:57] ROD: they needed power source, which is the hurricane. [00:11:00] It would suck the power out of them. You'd to
[00:11:03] WILL: I just, I mean, I mean obviously, obviously the thing that, it's just the understanding of energy in the Mar Marjorie Taylor Green types, like I think your point there about the 10,000 nuclear bomb, it's just off the charts. Like it's, just we, we have no capacity to generate whatever it would be that would stop the wind blowing at that scale.
[00:11:20] Like,
[00:11:20] ROD: and stop is a big word. I mean, I'm sure it would change it. Let's say we had our 10,000 bomb bomb and we went in the middle of a hurricane, there would be an effect.
[00:11:29] Yes. Would it be, I'll call it just stopped. I'm thinking. No, I'm thinking there may be secondary and maybe even tertiary effects. So, um. Yeah, she says, she puts on the, the, the armor and she says, look, rumors that they should do this was ridiculous. But she's trying to somehow, because she wants to help and also as a scientist, she wants to get the truth out there.
[00:11:51] And of course, that's a problem. She says, look, you get a person arguing that a hurricane turns into a tornado at a category six, and your brain, short circuits number of problems with that, including [00:12:00] there is no such thing as a category six.
[00:12:02] WILL: Yeah, I mean, that's, but, but only because we, the scale is human and we've got to a certain point.
[00:12:07] ROD: it's still like they're going, well fi it's, it's fricking spinal tap.
[00:12:10] Well, this one must be 11. And you're like, alright, well, I mean
[00:12:13] WILL: category five, and I'm not getting the exact definition here, is any winds over a certain amount.
[00:12:17] Like, it's, it's,
[00:12:18] ROD: I think pressure comes
[00:12:19] WILL: in. Yeah, yeah, sure. Whatever. And smell. But it's, it's, it's a above a certain, it's not like it goes and, and
[00:12:25] ROD: there is no possibility of exceeding.
[00:12:27] But also the relationship between hurricanes and tornadoes. I started reading about it and then I went, oh, I don't think I'll get it well enough to translate it. But bottom line is the relationship is, let's say, not straightforward. Oh,
[00:12:36] WILL: Oh, they're different things.
[00:12:37] ROD: They are different things. James Span again, dude I mentioned a bit earlier.
[00:12:40] He said, look, misinformation has gotten so out of control. It's distracting meteorologists from doing their jobs, which is a real problem. They don't get a chance to actually do the, Hey, warning, warning people be safe here. Get ready to flee. Or now that you are fleeing, this
[00:12:53] WILL: And just to remember here, that, that I mean, yes, yes. Obviously we employ meteorologists all the time around the world. Everything. [00:13:00] And we want them for your day to day. Do I need an umbrella?
[00:13:03] Yep. And farmers want them for their long term crop planning and
[00:13:06] ROD: Do my cows need an umbrella?
[00:13:07] WILL: need an umbrella. But, but you know, you know, one of the critical functions is time to bug out. Leo. You know, hundred percent shit's going really bad. Yeah. We need that function in society.
[00:13:15] ROD: Yes. Instead, they're doing things like having a go He, he said he posted on Facebook, for example, public service announcement that went viral, asking people to stop flooding his page with conspiracy theories. It's like, could you just leave the zone clear for me to help people live?
[00:13:29] WILL: No. No, we
[00:13:30] ROD: And of course that went viral. Like, look at this guy. We
[00:13:32] WILL: We can't.
[00:13:33] ROD: Yeah, I know. You're fucking, so mental health is an issue for workers now. So for meteorological types, they're saying, look, they work sometimes with only two or three hours of sleep for weeks in a row. When things getting heavy, then you deal with these threats coming in.
[00:13:47] It beats you down. Matthew Capucci said in the time of this was going on in October, he was being interviewed, hadn't slept in many days, totally exhausted. The past week he'd received hundreds of messages from people, hundreds accusing him of [00:14:00] modifying the weather and creating hurricanes from space lasers.
[00:14:03] Yeah, of course.
[00:14:03] WILL: of course
[00:14:04] ROD: They had to get there
[00:14:05] WILL: were those space races, lasers made by any particular race of
[00:14:09] ROD: There were religious sect, if you will. George Soros, Jewish hurricane controlling space lasers. I've said too much. I've said too much. it's horrifying. It's horrifying. What's going on.
[00:14:20] But look, I'm gonna leave the last comment here. I think it's good. Katie Nikolao mentioned earlier, she summarized it best, murdering meteorologists. She tweeted, this won't stop hurricanes. I can't believe I just had to type that.
[00:14:37] WILL: We can't have nice things. We can't have nice things.
[00:14:40] ROD: really can't. And we can't have meteorologists to either
[00:14:42] WILL: You know what, uh, those of you out listening, who, who might wanna blame the messenger.
[00:14:48] ROD: Mm.
[00:14:48] WILL: Blame the meteorologist for the weather. Just pause. Just pause. Yeah. And think about it.
[00:14:53] ROD: a little think about it.
[00:14:54] WILL: They're the messenger.
[00:14:55] ROD: a moment, step back. Have a moonshine. Whatever it is you do.
[00:14:59] WILL: I'll come to your point [00:15:00] about energy in a little while. I wanna tell you a couple of little stories. Good. from the world of nature,
[00:15:06] ROD: from
[00:15:07] WILL: the sounds that exist in nature. The first story, it covers the sounds that animals make during courtship special
[00:15:16] It's the dating sounds
[00:15:18] ROD: it's like the sound of, like, I was wondering if maybe you'd like to, you know, maybe get some food or something at the same time as me.
[00:15:23] WILL: Ah, yeah, yeah.
[00:15:24] ROD: how chimps do it.
[00:15:25] WILL: basically the version of, would you, would you like to come o over and watch Netflix, or something like that.
[00:15:30] ROD: now?
[00:15:30] WILL: we've known for a long time, and, and this is pretty obvious, that the animals that make courtship sounds have preferences in amongst themselves.
[00:15:39] ROD:
[00:15:39] WILL: you know, a bullfrog classic.
[00:15:40] It's got the, the, the big croak, certain types of croak indicates to the ladies of the species. Okay. That's, that's the bullfrog. That's the,
[00:15:47] ROD: That's the dude I want,
[00:15:48] WILL: want now, well, we don't necessarily know, what it's necessarily indicating if it's purely sexual selection. Like it's, it's just showing I have the croak that will get the ladies, so come to me, ladies.
[00:15:58] And your children will get, [00:16:00] or is it maybe it's indicating
[00:16:02] ROD: like a cv.
[00:16:03] WILL: Yeah, like it's indicating my croak indicates how powerful my other muscles are or something like that. You know, we don't quite know that,
[00:16:10] ROD: my indicates how powerful my other muscles are.
[00:16:13] WILL: Yeah, no doubt.
[00:16:13] ROD: Panty drop in that
[00:16:14] WILL: Yeah, exactly.
[00:16:15] I I have the powerful croak. I have a rub. How?
[00:16:18] ROD: Wow. There
[00:16:19] WILL: you go. Wow. so there's been a. a wondering that's go, it's gone all the way back to Darwin. Mm-hmm. Darwin said, you know, it's weird that, you know, brightly colored butterflies.
[00:16:29] Yeah. They obviously are brightly colored to each other and that, that, that attracts them. But why are they brightly colored to us? Like, like we we're, you know, we're not meant to be attracted to butterflies, but we look at them and go, man, that's pretty, pretty,
[00:16:42] ROD: let's eat it.
[00:16:42] WILL: So these scientists from McGill University said, I wonder if we.
[00:16:48] Humans can spot the sexy quirks out there
[00:16:52] ROD: Oh, that's awesome.
[00:16:53] WILL: can tell the difference. And they got a bunch of different species,
[00:16:56] ROD: in the hell, so they got, do you get to volunteer to do this study? 'cause I'm, I'm there for [00:17:00] every, every other one.
[00:17:00] They
[00:17:01] WILL: Well, they've got a fair few, 3008, 800 participants.
[00:17:03] Excellent. they've got a bunch of different species. So they've got birds, they've got mammals from, from big mammals to, to mouse. they've got,
[00:17:10] ROD: yeah, I've got,
[00:17:11] WILL: well they have frogs, bunch, bunch of different frogs. You know, they, they, they, you want that, but they've got things like crickets and fruit flies and, and can canaries in there.
[00:17:18] And, and what these are, they, they know in advance. The, the preferences in those species so they know that the boys and the girls like that kind of thing of the canary, whatever it is. Can humans tell which one is sexier?
[00:17:33] ROD: cannot.
[00:17:34] WILL: No. No. Humans can absolutely, can absolutely tell the sexier one out of all of the, yeah,
[00:17:42] ROD: that's a canary I want a piece of.
[00:17:44] WILL: but we can tell the difference.
[00:17:45] We can tell which one is the sexy bullfrog. Which
[00:17:48] ROD: that correlate with? Any intimate feelings on behalf of the participants in this
[00:17:53] WILL: study. They didn't go into
[00:17:54] ROD: See that's phase two.
[00:17:55] WILL: they, that, that must be fair. Phase two. So yeah, they got 3,800 participants. [00:18:00] Um,and then they'd give them 110, acoustic stimuli.
[00:18:04] So basically the mate, the mating calls. From non-human animals. and
[00:18:08] ROD: I love the way they have to say that.
[00:18:09] Like, we know what you mean.
[00:18:11] WILL: Well, you know what they did from non-human animals, hereafter animals.
[00:18:17] ROD: Jesus. So
[00:18:18] WILL: So humans are more likely than chance, and it wasn't like we were, you know, we knew every
[00:18:23] ROD: got 51%
[00:18:24] WILL: No, look, it's, it's, it's, it's definitely above chance, but it's not, it's not slamming it down.
[00:18:30] ROD: that's
[00:18:30] WILL: okay. To, to be able to predict the mating, uh, which mating calls now, we, we seem to be better at some species, than others. Yeah. Uh, so I, I, I, and I can't quite see what the patterns are like within the birds.
[00:18:44] There's some we're good at and some we're not good at. Within the mammals, there's some we're good and, and not good at. there was some suggestion that maybe there's a bit of an uncanny valley, like, like, we, we don't wanna be good at some species and we're better at others, or something like that.
[00:18:56] ROD: Really like a, a subliminal resistance of some description.[00:19:00]
[00:19:00] WILL: The, the more that animals had a preference, like, like if, if animals themselves in previous studies had shown a really strong preference for you, that's the sexy call. We were better at identifying those ones. So when, when the animals themselves had a sort of come and have sex and, and it was kind of ambiguous, then we couldn't tell what was better.
[00:19:18] Okay. But if the animals had. Come and have sex. And that's the sexy
[00:19:21] ROD: I want. So there's, there's something quite distinctive about those particular breed species, whatever, that they're more emphatic in some way. Yep.
[00:19:29] WILL: And we're faster too. Like, like we, we, you just that people reacted faster. Like straight. Yep. That's, that's the one.
[00:19:35] Nothing. Like it could be shared ancestry that we've got, but you know, these are, these are species that are a long way apart,
[00:19:42] ROD: like, ah, gotta die alone. And
[00:19:45] WILL: There, there is some suggestion, that, that, A lot of alert calls go across species. Like if, if you are, if you're getting attacked or something like that, then it's, it's beneficial for other species to know, alright, that thing's getting attacked.
[00:19:58] And so, and so there's a [00:20:00] roughness to alert calls in general. Like,
[00:20:03] ROD: ah, are you saying there's no roughness to some of the sexy calls? Come on? animals. Animals got their preferences.
[00:20:08] WILL: that's true.
[00:20:09] ROD: I'm thinking of warthogs, like different
[00:20:12] WILL: kind of rough, different kind of rough it's it something like, but, but the, that clearly there is communication that we can listen to across species. So maybe there's a, there's a parallel, like if
[00:20:23] ROD: if we can pick a warning, we can pick a Come on.
[00:20:25] WILL: Yeah, exactly. So
[00:20:26] ROD: certain species.
[00:20:27] WILL: so there you go.
[00:20:29] That made me happy.
[00:20:30] So I got a second, nature sound story for you. this one. Have, have you heard the, the research in the past that plants make screams when they're in distress?
[00:20:42] ROD: Yeah. I love that idea. I gotta be honest. There's something perversely entertaining about it.
[00:20:45] WILL: Yeah. So they're ultrasonic, we can't hear them.
[00:20:48] Uh, I
[00:20:49] ROD: like it because then when someone's getting all vegan or vegetarian at me, I'm like,
[00:20:52] WILL: plants still
[00:20:53] ROD: they scream to you, dude. You like you and you eat 'em alive.
[00:20:56] WILL: They, they,
[00:20:57] ROD: At least I kill mine first.
[00:20:58] WILL: seem to be creeks and [00:21:00] pops and things like that, but they happen when a plant is in distress.
[00:21:02] Either when it's getting cut or broken or, um, chewed.dehydrated. Or chewed. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:21:07] ROD: yeah, but you mean cooked.
[00:21:09] WILL: so these researchers from Tel Aviv University said, well. If something's making a form of communication. Mm-hmm. Would other things be listening? And I thought, well, maybe, So, to test this theory, what they, they said is, could, could insects potentially, hear these sounds that are made by plants? And might they react to that?
[00:21:28] ROD: I'm gonna say yes, because it's gotta be something useful to them in that.
[00:21:32] WILL: Yeah. Yeah. It seems to be. And and the interesting thing is, it's not just that, they're, they're detecting other indicators, like the plant getting chewed or the plant plant is dehydrated.
[00:21:44] They're actually hearing the sounds and, and
[00:21:46] ROD: Oh really?
[00:21:46] WILL: So this is from, this is from Tel Aviv University. Yeah. and what they've done is, they know that in advance, moths will plant their eggs on, particular, particular types of plants. You know, they thought there might have been something [00:22:00] here that might indicate plants in distress.
[00:22:02] Yeah. So they used the Egyptian cotton leaf worm moth and
[00:22:07] ROD: cotton leaf worm moth. That's a lot of nouns.
[00:22:10] WILL: Egyptian cotton? Well, it's Egyptian cotton,
[00:22:12] ROD: Egyptian cotton leaf worm moth.
[00:22:14] WILL: it's a thousand thousand weaves. It's a thousand weave bed sheet.
[00:22:17] ROD: So it only attacks really good linen?
[00:22:19] WILL: I think so.
[00:22:20] I
[00:22:20] ROD: Ooh, the monstrous,
[00:22:22] WILL: those moss would lay their eggs on plants. and they assumed that the females would seek an optimal site to lay their eggs. Sure. A healthy plant that might nourish the larvae when they wake up.
[00:22:33] ROD: Oh,
[00:22:33] WILL: okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so there's, there's obviously an evolutionary reason for
[00:22:37] ROD: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:22:38] WILL: so if the moth is laying their eggs on dehydrated plants, that would not be good. So they did, they did a series of experiments here that gradually isolated, isolated what's going on. Yeah. first part. the moss were presented with two boxes. one featured a speaker playing the ultrasounds of a dehydrated tomato plant.
[00:22:55] the other was silent. Now at this point, the moss demonstrated a [00:23:00] preference for laying the eggs with the noises because they're, they're assuming there's no, there's no tomato plant in there.
[00:23:06] So they, so they, that they initially thought, okay,
[00:23:09] ROD: the, at least the plant sound means there's a plant.
[00:23:11] WILL: at least the plant Ies n no,
[00:23:12] ROD: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.
[00:23:14] WILL: Second, when the moths hearing organs were neutralized. Which means,
[00:23:18] ROD: when we stabbed it in the ear holes and they couldn't hear anymore.
[00:23:20] WILL: Yes. Puncturing their typa membrane.
[00:23:22] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thanks Scientists.
[00:23:24] ROD: neutralized their hearing apparatus. No, you didn't, you deafened
[00:23:27] WILL: This preference evaporated. So when they can't hear anything, they just go randomly. They, they like, they are using their hearing to, to choose. They just went randomly after
[00:23:35] ROD: that. Or they're just in so much pain for being stabbed in the ears.
[00:23:38] They're just doing whatever they want anyway. Ah,
[00:23:39] WILL: it's possible. It's possible. I mean, we let it
[00:23:41] ROD: it is weird though. I mean, I'm sorry. It already sounded. It, it never ceases to amaze me. The things that scientists do is their work. Oh, yeah. And already setting this up is crazy. And it's like, okay, now we've gotta selectively and carefully deafen moths.
[00:23:53] No,
[00:23:53] WILL: no, absolutely. If you think that, you know, you, you describe your job. Okay. I spent today getting a tiny [00:24:00] deafening moths. Yeah, it's, it's an interesting one. And, and science does need to do weird
[00:24:03] ROD: things. Is that a sexy pickup line though? Like, so what, what do you do? Oh, I'm a scientist.
[00:24:07] What'd you do today? I was deafening moths or something. I gotta go. You sound
[00:24:12] WILL: I don't think you lead with that. I think you, you lead with I'm discovering things about nature.
[00:24:17] ROD: I discovered things. Yes. Okay. Okay.
[00:24:20] WILL: so next, the moths were presented with two healthy tomato plants. one of them playing the sounds of the dehydrated moss, and they preferred to, so, uh, lay their eggs on the silent one.
[00:24:29] So,
[00:24:29] ROD: so ostensibly the plants were the same, but one had the sound associated with dehydration.
[00:24:33] WILL: Yep. And so they go onto the, the one that sounds healthy. again, that's interesting. They, they continue to do this, this time they played, ultrasonic mating calls, so the sexy mating
[00:24:42] ROD: do that one.
[00:24:43] You ready? You ready? That's one
[00:24:45] WILL: that was, I, I, no, I think, I think there was a better one. I think. I think you can do it better.
[00:24:50] ROD: Ah, this one?
[00:24:51] WILL: Ah,
[00:24:51] ROD: Yeah. That is a better one. Yeah, I know, I know. I can have go away for a minute.
[00:24:54] WILL: that didn't make a difference. So it wasn't the mating cause. So not
[00:24:58] ROD: plant and root Not the same.
[00:24:59] WILL: [00:25:00] No. So basically, all of these, all the experiments came together, suggest that the moths are listening for the sounds of plants screaming and avoiding them if they can find a better plant like they can.
[00:25:10] But
[00:25:11] ROD: if they can't find any, at least
[00:25:12] WILL: know it's a plant. At least they know it's a plant. So they're using it to indicate plant or not plant, and also
[00:25:16] ROD: and then quality of plant.
[00:25:18] WILL: look like, I, I think the idea, the idea that plants make sounds when in distress is still new research. But then to get into the point where, oh no, animals are definitely using them to decide where to put their eggs.
[00:25:30] ROD: Look, I think that's good. But the real takeaway again is, are you listening vegans?
[00:25:34] You are monsters too. It's not just us carnivals.
[00:25:38] WILL: we
[00:25:38] ROD: like to do a bit of fun with animals. That's how we roll. This one is a story that I wasn't quite sure how to classify. It's both fun with animals and um,unusual kitchen gadgets.
[00:25:47] So there's some strange or moral remarkable dog breeds out there.
[00:25:52] WILL: Uh, okay.
[00:25:53] ROD: Like the otter Hound. Have you heard of the Otter Hound?
[00:25:56] WILL: I actually haven't.
[00:25:57] ROD: No. Really?
[00:25:58] WILL: Is it catching otters
[00:25:59] ROD: Yeah. [00:26:00] Yeah. Literally. So it's got like webbed feet and um, it's got a double thick coat to keep, I assume, warm and buoyant. And it's a poy dog. Sorry, English. For those of you who dunno what pom means, developed to help hunt otters.
[00:26:11] Why are you hunting otters? I don't know, but it would've been the olden days. Yeah.
[00:26:14] WILL: Okay. Yeah, they hunted a lot of things. Just, just generally is it out there? Shall we hunt
[00:26:19] ROD: it? Or It's also like have, has anyone, have you ever been to dinner where someone's put that in a pie? No. Then we're gonna do
[00:26:24] WILL: I was assuming it was more a fur, like this is for hats not for pie.
[00:26:27] ROD: Otters are delicious. Are they? I don't know. Are they?
[00:26:29] WILL: Are they?
[00:26:30] ROD: Well, what are, yeah. I don't know. Probably not. Are they predators? They are. They're predators.
[00:26:34] WILL: predators,
[00:26:35] ROD: And everyone knows if you eat predator meat, you vomit
[00:26:38] WILL: and you get the pry disease.
[00:26:40] ROD: No, both of us have eaten that in England and we didn't get it yet. What
[00:26:44] WILL: What?
[00:26:45] ROD: I've
[00:26:45] WILL: but they were accidental predators.
[00:26:46] I mean, don't turn cows into predators.
[00:26:48] ROD: Oh, no, that's terrifying.
[00:26:49] WILL: mean, they're not designed that way.
[00:26:51] ROD: My wife just came back from a little hut in the wilderness surrounded by cows, and at one point she said, oh, there's two adorable cows. The mother and the daughter or the son, whatever, cow, cow [00:27:00] lit,
[00:27:01] WILL: Look at you. Look at you with your biology.
[00:27:02] ROD: I'm following her story. Okay. And she said, oh, they came up and they wanted to say hello and stuff. And she said, fuck me. Cows are big. And I was like, they really are.
[00:27:10] WILL: they really are. Look, totally
[00:27:11] ROD: turn that into a predator.
[00:27:12] WILL: Yeah. No,
[00:27:13] ROD: Yeah. No. Also, apparently not that dumb. And I'm sick scientist of you telling me stories about things I find delicious having personalities and being able to learn.
[00:27:22] I want you to tell me that the yummiest things are dumb and basically sentient plants.
[00:27:26] WILL: I think, I think Spoiler alert. Long-term trajectory on that is we'll never find they're dumb enough to make the argument that we're allowed to eat them just because of that.
[00:27:35] ROD: Um, I'm very, very
[00:27:36] WILL: disappointed. The science is not gonna help on
[00:27:38] ROD: I'm disappointed. I'm gonna have to go to the church for this.
[00:27:41] WILL: when they're distressed.
[00:27:42] ROD: Oh, you're terrible. I need to go the common door as a dog. Have you heard of the Common Door? Common Door? It's a Hungarian flock guardian. Oh,
[00:27:52] WILL: Oh, okay. Yeah.
[00:27:54] ROD: but it basically, it, it's been described at least in this source, profuse white cords from head to tail.
[00:27:58] It looks like mega [00:28:00] dreads.
[00:28:00] WILL: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:28:01] ROD: Like they really stand out and very specifically design you your name called Weather, et cetera. What about the, uh, Verna Pat
[00:28:09] WILL: The Verna Herzog dog?
[00:28:10] ROD: No, Verna, it's the Latin, my Latin accent is perfect. It's Latin for the dog that turns the wheel, or more commonly known as turn Spit Dogs.
[00:28:21] WILL: again.
[00:28:22] ROD: turn spit dogs.
[00:28:23] WILL: are they turning
[00:28:24] ROD: spits? So before we had automated, you know, roasting machines, et cetera, open fires, if you wanted to roast meat, you had to constantly turn
[00:28:33] WILL: and they got a dog to do it.
[00:28:34] ROD: Oh, did they ever,
[00:28:35] WILL: they got a dog to do it.
[00:28:36] Did they ever
[00:28:39] ROD: Like and quite remarkably, it seems, oh,
[00:28:41] WILL: oh,
[00:28:42] ROD: so apparently to do this be before this particular kind of dog was bred and trained or whatever it was the lowest ranking kitchen staff member would turn the spit. Usually that was a young boy.
[00:28:54] WILL: They
[00:28:54] ROD: stand by in a bale of wet hay to protect them from all the heat that was charging off the fire.
[00:28:59] But they [00:29:00] still usually would end up quite sweaty and covered in blisters from just 'cause you're talking hours. So just hours of regularly turning the meat
[00:29:06] WILL: What? Well, I, I just, I, you know. There's the solution of torturing a young boy or torturing
[00:29:12] ROD: which to be fair is a go to. I, I,
[00:29:13] WILL: or torturing an animal.
[00:29:14] And I get that this is a
[00:29:16] ROD: who said who said torturing?
[00:29:16] WILL: hang anyway, that doesn't care about this. Why not make a longer handle
[00:29:21] ROD: what?
[00:29:22] WILL: Longer handle? You're
[00:29:23] ROD: thinking of the cost long,
[00:29:25] WILL: longer handle.
[00:29:26] ROD: not thinking of the cost. A little sapling
[00:29:29] WILL: that. I just
[00:29:30] ROD: a birch switch with a little bit of give in it. I love
[00:29:32] WILL: I love the, that's a solution within the technological grasp of the
[00:29:38] ROD: nearly. That could cost nearly half a au oph. Or, or you can, you can just go down the road to the peasant house and go, you seem to have excess
[00:29:46] WILL: you. Boy,
[00:29:47] ROD: give me one.
[00:29:48] WILL: I, I know, I know. But handles are pretty cheap.
[00:29:52] ROD: Not then there was a run on handles. There was a, not a glut,
[00:29:57] WILL: I had this thing the other day that nails made up [00:30:00] 0.5%. Now don't quote that number. It
[00:30:02] ROD: of GDP of the us. I heard that too. You
[00:30:05] WILL: Like, you go, whatcha
[00:30:06] ROD: that's a lot of nails. That's
[00:30:08] WILL: a lot of nails, you
[00:30:09] ROD: you nailing nails together? Like
[00:30:10] WILL: that nails are hard to make in the olden times,
[00:30:12] ROD: Well, yeah. No, they're not. I, I wouldn't be really good at making them now, to be honest, if I had to, oh,
[00:30:17] WILL: look, I'd be,
[00:30:18] ROD: oh, you drop forge it.
[00:30:19] Obviously So anyway, young, young boys, et cetera, standing behind wet bales of age, protecting themselves from the heat. But apparently 1576 in the book of English dogs. Apparently the first book written about them, that's where they first mentioned. So the turn Spit was a small dog.
[00:30:36] It weighed, I've only got this in the, um, in the old school, 15 to 25 pounds. So that's what, like eight grams?
[00:30:42] WILL: Yeah, it's smaller.
[00:30:43] ROD: It's smaller. It's not a big dog, but it's not the tiniest dog. Yeah, it's not Chihuahua. No. It's kind of like a what? A Jack Russell or something.
[00:30:49] WILL: Yeah.
[00:30:50] ROD: Um, probably about eight inches to 12 inches.
[00:30:53] About a foot tall. Not huge.
[00:30:55] WILL: it reach the handle? Uh,
[00:30:57] ROD: Uh, doesn't have to. There's a mechanism.[00:31:00]
[00:31:00] WILL: Ah,
[00:31:00] ROD: Short legs, long backs, stocky bodies, long snouts, short coats, very tight, curly tails at curl back over the top of their back. Okay.
[00:31:08] WILL: Ah, okay.
[00:31:09] ROD: And they were hailed as a major life improvement for people. So they basically had like a little hamster wheel attached to the handle.
[00:31:19] Probably quite a long handle. Now look,
[00:31:20] WILL: Look, look, I feel like
[00:31:22] ROD: they can build a hamster wheel, but not a long handle. Uh,
[00:31:25] WILL: Is this true? Is this true? Supposedly, yeah.
[00:31:29] ROD: Okay. Keep, oh, wait, wait. If you doubt it now. So, working conditions in kitchens weren't great in general in the 1,516 hundreds, et cetera, but particularly not great for dogs.
[00:31:40] So many were forced to run next to the blazing hot spit roast for hours because, you know, they, they're a
[00:31:46] WILL: they, they're ashamed Uhhuh, so they're running on the treadmill.
[00:31:47] ROD: So running on the treadmill. Yeah. And it was common for the dogs to get, you know, kind of weird bent legs because of the hours on the, treadmill. And occasionally cooks would be like, well, you're being a bit slow.
[00:31:54] So they'd throw pepper little hot coals on the ground under their feet to keep them,
[00:31:58] WILL: Great,
[00:31:59] ROD: you know, [00:32:00] motivated. Thank you. Well, your meet's gotta cook evenly. I mean, come on. The master would be mad. We can't have that. Um, and because it was so labor intensive, the dogs would often work in pairs, so they'd swap in and out on the hamster wheel that this dog would be on for a while, and then you'd do the next shift.
[00:32:15] Apparently they're very intelligent, though. And very loyal. 'cause dogs give us everything we want no matter what we do to
[00:32:22] WILL: Dogs, dogs being loyal is not a huge surprise. No, not
[00:32:25] ROD: as a rule, but even when they're treated like this, but apparently they're in terms of brain, some sources suggest they didn't necessarily need to be told to tag in and out like they would swap swap on their own.
[00:32:35] They would get a day off occasionally, at least on Sunday mornings, apparently, because the owners would take 'em to church and use 'em as foot warmers, like he fucking as assholes. and there are, there are suggestions that maybe the, the origin of the phrase, every dog has its day, may have come from these people suggestions.
[00:32:54] Um, you'd be amazed to hear, amazed that they, they had some common health issues as far as they could tell. I know. Weird. [00:33:00] Weird, right? Weird. They're not a hundred percent sure because people weren't exactly focused on go to the vet and stuff. There probably weren't many vets, but if there were, they're like, this isn't a show dog.
[00:33:09] and it's fair enough, like you don't take your potato peeler to the vet, do you? Or your oven,
[00:33:15] WILL: They're different things, but, well, I do take my oven to the oven vet.
[00:33:19] ROD: You do need to, your oven is quirky though. Um, so apparently it definitely, you know, lung issues from breathing a lot of smoke and stuff, et cetera, probably, and the bent legs.
[00:33:28] But weirdly, apparently their life expectancy was pretty solid nine to 12 years on the hole. Okay. So they lived, well, they're getting a lot of exercise. They're probably got a bit of meat.
[00:33:37] WILL: Yeah.
[00:33:38] ROD: Yeah. Okay. A bit of hot coals under the Tootsies church on
[00:33:40] WILL: am just, I'm still, I'm still skeptical,
[00:33:43] ROD: You don't believe the book of British dogs?
[00:33:46] WILL: Mm-hmm. I I. Oh,
[00:33:47] ROD: well, there are lithographs.
[00:33:49] WILL: Yeah. Right. That's what I'd need to see.
[00:33:50] ROD: Evidence. Evidence. So 1750 apparently turns pit dogs were everywhere in Great Britain, like very common by 1850, [00:34:00] not so much. and by 1900 pretty much disappeared because spit powered machines, clock jacks and things that would turn it mechanically.
[00:34:08] So they just didn't need them anymore. So apparently after about 1850, if you had a turn spit dog, you're poor. That's embarrassing. Yeah. You're poor. Like, oh, he's a dog to turn your meat. As opposed to, holy shit, there's a dog turning your meat.
[00:34:21] WILL: I mean, now it would be
[00:34:23] ROD: not good.
[00:34:25] WILL: Cruel but impressive.
[00:34:26] ROD: Well, maybe they'd enjoy it.
[00:34:28] Man.
[00:34:28] WILL: Maybe, I mean, you put 'em in a nice space and, and it's, if they get to eat a bit of the meat each time round or something
[00:34:33] ROD: that, pick the right dog till I pick an idiot kelpie that just needs to be moving constantly for 15 hours a day. They might love it.
[00:34:39] WILL: Well, thanks. Old time people.
[00:34:41] ROD: Oh well look, the, it gets better.
[00:34:44] So apparently though ugly little dogs with su dispositions and nobody wanted to keep them as pets. So as the machinery took over,
[00:34:51] WILL: could, could this be because they're treated like shit all the through, all the way through their lives?
[00:34:54] ROD: you're such a soft guy. Like,
[00:34:55] WILL: could it be
[00:34:56] ROD: you woke hippie fricking friend of the [00:35:00] utensil. It's a tattoo you should get. I love utensils.
[00:35:03] WILL: Oh, dude.
[00:35:04] ROD: yeah, they just weren't particularly popular compared to other dog breeds. And the technology becoming in meant people didn't care about them. So basically they're extinct. They just don't exist anymore.
[00:35:15] WILL: and there's never been a Jurassic Park where we bring these dogs back.
[00:35:18] ROD: then.
[00:35:18] Hasn't yet been,
[00:35:19] WILL: mean, that's Jurassic Park seven,
[00:35:21] ROD: Look, the kitchen dog, 10 15,
[00:35:25] WILL: They don't do numbers, so how could we count? But
[00:35:27] ROD: impossible. they don't exist anymore. They reckon the closest relatives are like Welsh corgis and, and the, Glen of Imal terrier. So little long
[00:35:36] WILL: So the queen, the queen,
[00:35:37] ROD: queen, yeah. They have a taxidermied one called whiskey in a castle in Wales. So you can go and see a taxidermied turn spit dog in Wales if you're so inclined.
[00:35:48] WILL: will go and look.
[00:35:49] ROD: You should go and look
[00:35:49] WILL: at, at, at some point in my life I
[00:35:51] ROD: and look, go and go to Wales.
[00:35:53] .
[00:35:54] WILL: Travis Kanick, the founder of Uber, no longer works there because the [00:36:00] workplace was not described as brilliant.
[00:36:01] But anyway, this is not the, the point of the story
[00:36:03] ROD: Shocked.
[00:36:04] WILL: he's recently appeared on an all in, podcast, with a bunch of other, uh, people from the, the Silicon Valley, startup tech world. Yeah. Jason Calas and Chama, pal Pier. What they're talking about is the future of technology and yeah, that's, that's the kind of stuff they're covering.
[00:36:20] The
[00:36:20] ROD: future of technology. Technology is the future, man. Whoa, everyone says
[00:36:27] WILL: Well, I'll come to that. I'll come to that. But anyway, uh, Travis Kanick was talking about his use of ai and he's, he's like, I'll go down this thread with chat, GPT or grok, and I'll start to get to the edge of what's known in quantum physics. And then I'm doing the equivalent of vibe coding. Now, just to pause for a sec, vibe coding is a form of coding that's, it's come to prominence in 2025.
[00:36:53] Yeah. where you use an AI assistant. You sort of code and you say, I want it to do something like this and I want it to do something like that. And they get into this weird [00:37:00] flow
[00:37:00] ROD: kind of let's kind of back and forth a little.
[00:37:02] Not
[00:37:02] WILL: actual coding. No. And getting the machine to do all of the work so you don't actually know what's gonna happen.
[00:37:07] And it's not secure, but it's just the vibe. You know, you're sort of coding the vibe.
[00:37:11] ROD: not against that in principle.
[00:37:13] WILL: So Calex says I'm doing the equivalent of vibe coding, except it's vibe Physics.
[00:37:21] ROD: Well, that's what most physicists call it though, to be fair. Like he, he's just saying what they all do.
[00:37:27] WILL: So, so Kanick is like, and we're approaching what's known.
[00:37:30] I'm trying to poke, and this is, remember his conversations with Grok or chat or something like that, trying to poke and see if there's breakthroughs to be had I got pretty damn close to some interesting breakthroughs just doing
[00:37:42] ROD: Oh, I got PDQI got so close. you could just tell how the vibe
[00:37:46] WILL: I pinged Elon.
[00:37:47] at some point
[00:37:48] ROD: we've all done
[00:37:48] WILL: I'm just like, dude, if I'm doing this and I'm a super, super amateur hour physics enthusiast, what about those PhD students and postdocs that are super legit using this tool? So,
[00:37:59] ROD: this is that [00:38:00] classic. The, the AI has a magical homunculus with a brain and it Mm,
[00:38:04] WILL: Well, Elon, Elon, in a different thread Mm. has said, this is how I felt when using Grok four, asking grok four questions about material science that are not in any books or on the internet
[00:38:16] ROD: and white racism in South
[00:38:17] WILL: Yeah. Well, yeah, obviously,
[00:38:19] ROD: same thing. Same thing.
[00:38:20] WILL: and, and Mecca Hitler. Like, like aside from all that.
[00:38:23] Aside from all, so, yeah. Yeah. Look, there, there is a, there is a thread here amongst these sorts of enthusiasts in the, in the Silicon Valley world. Elon Musk is one of these, Travis Kanick is, is pointing in this direction. There are others that I'll come to in a second. Yeah. Where they're like, okay, whether, whether it's intelligent intelligence or not, or, or an artificial general, it's, it's getting close to being able to make discoveries in physics.
[00:38:50] ROD: And of course they'd know that because the vibe.
[00:38:55] WILL: So look, I just wanted to. Book review call bullshit on that, but then [00:39:00] point to someone who called bullshit really? Well, because this, this is, this is, something I, I really recommend people read, because it's just a great examination of, of the whole world that people are working in, in Silicon Valley and their ideas.
[00:39:14] So this is Adam Becker's more Everything forever. So, came out 20, 25, earlier this year. I've just finished reading it and I, and I, and I wanted to give it such a shout. I'm gonna, I'm gonna start by reading the blurb on the back of this. Okay. The junk science and sinister ideas behind Silicon Valley's foolish obsession with immortality, ai, paradise, and limitless growth tech billionaires have decided that they should determine our futures for us.
[00:39:36] According to Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Sam Altman, and more, the only good future for humanity is one powered by fantastical technology, trillions of humans living in space, functionally immortal, served by super intelligent ais.
[00:39:49] ROD: I'm cool so far.
[00:39:50] WILL: Yeah. See, this is the thing. This is the thing. And then
[00:39:54] ROD: And then.
[00:39:56] WILL: those things sound awesome.
[00:39:58] They sound awesome. [00:40:00] But if you are actually a believer in actual science, and Adam Becker is, he's a science writer now, but he's, trained, did his PhD in physics. Yep.
[00:40:08] ROD: we didn't need to Ai waste.
[00:40:11] What a waste of time. How embarrassing for Adam? So this is just him justifying his waste of time.
[00:40:17] WILL: The thing is, yeah. In more everything forever, science writer Adam Becker investigates these wildly implausible and often profoundly immoral visions of tomorrow to reveal why in reality there is no good evidence they'll come to pass.
[00:40:28] Yeah.
[00:40:28] ROD: Yep.
[00:40:29] WILL: The Giants of Silicon Valley claim that their ideas are based on science, but the truth is darker. They come from a jumbled mix of shallow futurism and racist pseudoscience. Now, I, I just wanted to,
[00:40:38] ROD: what, what, what's the downside? Yeah.
[00:40:40] WILL: See, see this is the thing. You know, there is a vision that is sold by the people in Silicon Valley, that one.
[00:40:47] Yeah. As we've, many of us hold, technology will solve all sorts of
[00:40:53] ROD: Yeah. Not all sorts, all, all, all problems. And,
[00:40:56] WILL: and this is, this is becoming more and more prominent, particularly [00:41:00] among the, the super AI enthusiasts. Yeah. So Elon Musk is definitely part of that, but Sam Altman and the others, um, that ai, you know, we need to get AI first, and that can solve climate change.
[00:41:12] It can solve all sorts of health problems, all sorts of,
[00:41:14] ROD: it'll even get them a girlfriend,
[00:41:16] WILL: Even get them a girlfriend. Look, Elon Musk seems to be able to get. You know,
[00:41:22] ROD: didn't get girlfriends.
[00:41:23] WILL: Okay. Like deposit bank.
[00:41:26] ROD: I know, I know.
[00:41:27] WILL: I, it's
[00:41:28] ROD: It's not great.
[00:41:29] WILL: but, but the thing is, the thing is, you know, for all of their love of science and these, these are people, who would reflexively identify as science enthusiasts.
[00:41:38] They love what science can do for the world. They will never listen to the actual limits that science says. You know, that science, for example, says, you know, the climate is changing and we're destroying the world. Or that there might be functional limits to like, like our bodies
[00:41:52] ROD: telomeres can only grow so long and for, so, yeah.
[00:41:55] WILL: or, or that we will never have the, the ability to move beyond [00:42:00] the speed of light, like the,
[00:42:01] ROD: I know.
[00:42:01] WILL: energy required for all of these things are utterly delusional.
[00:42:05] But the problem, the problem of all of this vision, this idea from a bunch of these tech enthusiasts is that, you know, we build the a GI, artificial general intelligence. Yeah. That allows us to colonize the solar system and then the galaxy, and then the
[00:42:19] ROD: and then we
[00:42:19] WILL: we can just, and then, and we can ignore all these problems.
[00:42:22] ROD: Ev everyone knows if you make it bigger, it will get better.
[00:42:24] WILL: You
[00:42:25] ROD: And there's no limit
[00:42:26] WILL: But they also ignore like heat death of the universe. Like, like there, there
[00:42:30] ROD: no, some of them worry about that because they think they're gonna be there.
[00:42:33] WILL: Well, no, they, they,
[00:42:35] ROD: they, they think they're gonna be, there're
[00:42:36] WILL: be so immortal.
[00:42:37] And, and remembering the heat, death of the universe comes, it takes a long time to say the trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion years into the future.
[00:42:45] ROD: Also, it doesn't happen instantly. Like you're suffering for a long time before you get there.
[00:42:49] WILL: But, but there is a tech solution to this and it is fine when people are, well, it's fine for people to fantasize.
[00:42:56] To go, you know, it'd be great to live in a, in a, in a universe like [00:43:00] Star Wars, where we colonize the universe. I'm totally down
[00:43:02] ROD: with that. E and m banks's culture series, all these awesome, like wonderful, amazing, interesting visions.
[00:43:06] WILL: would be great. It's also great to raise possible ideas and go, okay, what would it be like if this kind of thing?
[00:43:12] But at some point, when we are building machines and we're in charge of trillion dollar companies, yeah. We have to be grounded in the world that says, hang on, we have problems in the actual
[00:43:21] ROD: You're such a buzzkill.
[00:43:22] WILL: no, I'm not a buzzkill.
[00:43:24] ROD: What do you wanna
[00:43:24] WILL: I'm supporting Adam Becker's buzzkill,
[00:43:26] ROD: Adam. Buzzkill Becker.
[00:43:28] WILL: Don't call him like,
[00:43:29] ROD: Like, it's,
[00:43:30] WILL: it's just, it's just, we have actual problems in the world right now and, and this, this idea that we can postpone them all just by doing more computation is just so dumb and so dangerous.
[00:43:42] ROD: No, no, no. Right on the edge of the AI. Our answers we didn't even think to have questions for. How do you not realize that? You know? You know how I know that to be true? Because the people who write the code, they don't even know what's going on.
[00:43:54] So it must be
[00:43:55] WILL: No, they
[00:43:56] ROD: it must be
[00:43:57] WILL: vibe coding the the damn thing all the way down. And here's the thing, here's the [00:44:00] thing, you
[00:44:00] ROD: be amazing.
[00:44:00] WILL: vibe physics cannot work because you need to test against the real world.
[00:44:05] Oh my.
[00:44:05] ROD: Oh, come on. Like
[00:44:06] WILL: you need to test the physics that you are doing against the real world, and you need to do hard, hard work there. No,
[00:44:12] ROD: No, you, you are not my real dad. I can do whatever I want.
[00:44:14] WILL: But, but the, the dumb, you know, there's, there's a chunk where Elon Musk is like, no, no, we are running out of data from the internet so we can just use synthetic data.
[00:44:21] So you get an AI to generate synthetic data
[00:44:24] ROD: then analyze
[00:44:25] WILL: and then analyze it. And it's like you, you are just going into your own little, your own butthole. You
[00:44:29] ROD: butthole. This is a circle jerk of, of phenomenal proportions. This is gonna be the actual singularity, the circle jerk that goes,
[00:44:36] WILL: maybe, maybe they circle jerk themselves so much that they all just disappear in a cloud of,
[00:44:42] ROD: That's amazing.
[00:44:43] WILL: Astic terribleness. I just, so look. There you go. I huge endorse, I think it's, I think it's a great word. I think it's a really important
[00:44:52] ROD: So is it more Everything Forever by Adam Becker? More Everything Forever. You finished reading it? I
[00:44:55] WILL: finished reading it? I finished reading it. It's, it's it to me. Yeah.
[00:44:57] I'll, I'll give it to you. Yeah. In, in physical version.
[00:44:59] ROD: I [00:45:00] will bring you, when I've nearly finished my book, that I, I could review narrative economics.
[00:45:04] WILL: Oh, I'm excited. It's actually not
[00:45:05] ROD: not bad. So
[00:45:07] WILL: look, I think science can do an awful lot of things.
[00:45:11] ROD: Yeah.
[00:45:12] WILL: But there are also limits and, and science tells us those limits and maybe we should build a world that is
[00:45:18] ROD: Then we just listen to the philosophers and the poets.
[00:45:21] WILL: Yes. a little bit of science is your little bit of science. Yes. if you want to support it and help other people to get their little bit of science, what do they do?
[00:45:29] ROD: They need to give us a 12 star review. They need to tell their friends. They should also send us emails.
[00:45:34] I think it works now.
[00:45:35] WILL: Yes, it does.
[00:45:36] ROD: At a little bit of science.com, au.com au And just, yeah, questions, suggestions. I don't know. Love songs are good
[00:45:43] WILL: And we're also on Twitch, like well, you know, obviously we're getting there. We're getting there, you know, but, but it's Friday afternoons. Friday afternoons generally the time we'll be there unless shit gets in the
[00:45:51] ROD: three 30
[00:45:52] WILL: stuff. And that's in Australian daylight, et cetera.
[00:45:56] ROD: Yeah, east coast
[00:45:57] WILL: love is all. [00:46:00]
